Dickie,
You said, “the incidence of autism was 1 in 10000 before the 70s Celivia. What is the point you make?”
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119934905/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
“There was a marked difference in prevalence rates between those studies that included some children born before 1970 (low rates) and those that included only children born in 1970 and after (high rates). This is probably due to the lower rates obtained by use of criteria strictly based on Kanner's description of his syndrome.”
FYI, this means that autism was just far more common then we realized in the past. But since the 70s we developed better tools and criteria for diagnosing autism. Before the 70s doctors were not very apt at diagnosing autism because they didn’t have these criteria at hand.
Children, who are not OBVIOUSLY autistic, would today be diagnosed as autistic because they fall within the strict criteria. Before these criteria were introduced, these children would be called retarded, eccentric, introvert, or any other description.

DL,
You said, “disease has decreased in our countries for far greater reasons that drugs”
I said that, “our overall life span increase is partly due to the drugs and treatments” The key word is PARTLY. I never claimed that there were no other reasons responsible for our increased life span.

That measles were already declining is nonsense. While it’s true that childhood disease rates have declined because of hygiene, diet etc, childhood diseases have always increased and decreased cyclically.

If you want to stop vaccination, then help eradicate the disease first, not slow it down. We now do not need a vaccine against smallpox because thanks to worldwide vaccination the disease has been eradicated. Global eradication of Polio is near, according to WHO. That means we can soon stop vaccinating against Polio, too.

We need global eradication of other childhood diseases as well especially the killers like measles. Eradication is impossible if we have anti-vax nutters refusing vaccination and slowing down eradication, especially medical staff.

That’s why I maintain that medical staff should be vaccinated if they do not already have immunity against these particular diseases.

C L Sr <<argonomist...sorry but your argument is idiocy. inorganic mercury does not leave the body sooner than organic mercury. to suggest so in this argument is ridiculous. the science is soon to come that will make your claims the ignorant rantings of idiots.>>

I was obviously correct in my first assessment of you.

As for measles, you are totally wrong. The incidence of measles did not decline prior to vaccination. Here is the data. http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/377693 The figure is here: http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/action/showFullPopup?doi=10.1086%2F377693&id=fg1

The first measles vaccine was introduced in 1963. Another version http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/6mishome.htm

I remember as a child almost everyone at school got measles. My father remembers school friends of his dying of diphtheria. Back then there were 13,000 to 15,000 deaths a year from diphtheria in the US. http://www.hhs.gov/nvpo/factsheets/fs_tableI_doc3.htm

That is how short a time since these diseases were dangerous.

dickie, Celivia is right. The changing definition of autism and autism spectrum disorders has had a major impact on the apparent rise in autism in the western world. http://www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=364&a=2618

argonomist, Mortality rates had of course dropped prior to the vaccine as well. When considering monetary costs due to measles (as the article you linked me to stated), nobody is paying attention to the monetary cost of the 1-100 kids with autism. Or the gastrointestinal difficulties that are chronic in our children.
I think that those of us whose families have been adversely affected by the vaccines have every right in the world to have no faith in the programs. The theory behind vaccines are a wonderful idea and I would support a safe vaccine program, but ignoring the very real problems that are inherant in the system are what is causing "anti-vacciners" like myself to come to these conclusions. And people that deny these very real consequences are the reason that the American peole have no faith in the system.
It really says something when your own health care professional refuse the most basic health care intervention. Just like when Bush ordered those hundreds of millions of dollars worth of small pox vaccine after 9-11 and ordered medical personnel to begin taking it. Then there was nothing mentioned about it because the doctors were refusing the vaccine! something must be amiss, don't you think?
as far as the diagnostic protocol for autism, you have a point but it definately couldnt be the only reason. you'll see in another 20 years when all of the autistic children have nowhere to go and we have no tax dollars to take care of them.

C L Sr, Wanting to change the goalposts again? Your statement was <<Measles was already 95% irradicated [sic] from America prior to the vaccine>>. This statement was patently untrue as I have shown. Likewise, many of your other statements. The fact that you want to make patently untrue statements in support of your position shows how flimsy it is.

Deaths from measles, as from many other diseases, declined prior to vaccination introductions because of better medical care from evidence-based medical advances. However, people still got measles and still died or had serious complications from it. The benefits of vaccination for many diseases far outweigh the costs.

People are paying attention to autism-spectrum disorders. There is a very large amount of research in the area. However, it is a simple fact that there is no good evidence autism spectrum disorders are caused by vaccination and plenty of good evidence that they have genetic causes. http://www.pnas.org/content/103/45/16621.full http://www.pnas.org/content/103/45/16834.full http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v14/n6/abs/5201610a.html http://www.springerlink.com/content/c1074v4113q53rw0/ http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/520013?rss http://www.ikhebeenvraag.be/mediastorage/FSDocument/52/Freitag-2.pdf http://www.cell.com/AJHG/retrieve/pii/S0002929707633655 http://www.cell.com/AJHG/retrieve/pii/S000292970763019

argonomist, the simple fact is that severe adverse reactions from vaccines are very real and far more common than you think. The mortality rate is what dropped (so I miss spoke) but given this, you would have to at least admit that medicine has advanced to the point that measles and many other childhood illnesses can be better treated without the need for these vaccines. If the mortality rate was so low prior to the vaccine being instituted, than your precious science based medicine has done nothing but gotten better since than, so why not treat the disease and allow these kids the natural immunity that comes from the actual disease as opposed to the vaccines that are most definately the cause of serious chronic illness. Asthma is at the very least, a by product of vaccinations and more children die from the complications from asthma the measles. Let's treat the kids and get them better..rather than destroying their immune systems with these vaccines.
There are far too many studies suggesting a correlation between the vaccines and chronic illness... Dr. Bernadine Healy is someone that I would trust in her judgemnet far more than you. The D.O.D. is also suggesting that their protocol to vaccinate our US Soldiers is based upon pediatric evidence and should be studied due to the severe adverse reactions that are happening in our oldiers..now, if our young, healthy soldiers are being affected, don't you think that we should be looking into the practice regarding our children?
Ultimately, this is about these kids...and if the goal posts have to be moved...so be it. I don't profess to know everything about the issue, I DO KNOW THAT WE ARE DAMAGING OUR CHILDREN AND I'M SICK AND TIRED OF IDIOTS THAT REFUSE TO SEE THE EVIDENCE THAT IS THERE. AS USUAL, IT TURNS INTO PERSONAL ATTACKS INSTEAD OF THE EVIDENCE. YOU REFERENCED THE DENMARK STUDY...THAT'S MOVING THE GOAL POSTS AS WELL. EVERYBODY KNOWS WHAT INCREDIBLY FLAWED JUNK SCIENCE THAT WAS!

CL,
“Just like when Bush ordered…”
Who cares what Bush ordered- what would he know about NNH and vaccines?
Unlike Obama, he’s hardly someone who embraces science.

” Dr. Bernadine Healy is someone that I would trust in her judgemnet”
I bet! Anyone with a lack of education would blindly believe what she says. But what would Healy know; it’s obvious that she’s not an immunologist or paediatrician or vaccine specialist.
Why do you rely on information of people who have faith in pseudo-science and are as far away from the field of immunology as possible, while ignoring the advice of experts?

Oh I know why- you base your beliefs about health on faith.

There is no evidence that asthma and autism are caused by vaccines. http://www.news-medical.net/?id=251

Measles outbreaks are on the rise in the USA thanks to pseudo-science propaganda:
Measles Outbreaks Worry CDC
Surge in Measles Cases Blamed on Parents Who Won't Vaccinate Kids
http://children.webmd.com/vaccines/news/20080821/measles-outbreaks-worry-cdc
“it will take 95% vaccine coverage to keep measles from re-establishing itself in the U.S. In the U.K. fears that the measles vaccine might be linked to autism dropped vaccination coverage there to 80% to 85% of the population.
Very high coverage rates are necessary because measles is one of the most contagious diseases known to man.
Uncomplicated measles is a serious illness, but some kids who get the illness come down with life-threatening encephalitis or pneumonia. In the years before vaccination became common, a few children each year developed a very rare measles complication called subacute sclerotic panencephalitis -- a degenerative brain disease that is almost always fatal but which can take up to 10 years to kill.”

“the American peole have no faith in the system”
I know! And the whole world laughs at you. This is what faith has done to Americans’ brains- they believe anything as long as it is not backed up by science.

20% Of Americans don’t even know something very basic, e.g. that the earth revolves around the sun. http://www.8bm.com/diatribes/volume02/034/708.htm