argronomist, when I was referencing homeopathy I wasn't talking about what was set into place in the 1700's. Do you really think that this was just "thrown together" in the course of a couple of weeks? Homeopathy is derived from eastern and western medicine from centuries prior to the actual "homeopathic" ways.
I've interviewed Dr. Wakefield and have followed the witch hunt extensively. He's being investigated for his "conflict of interest" regarding the law firm ties, and the BMC isn't doing so well right now in the case. The original head of the BMC's case had to step down prior to the onset due to his own conflict of interest and the man in charge now is having to step down because of his own conflict of interest. It seems that one should'nt own shares in the pharmaceutical industry when you're supposed to be unbiased in a case like wakefields. Besides that, forgive me if I'm wrong but isn't there a certain belief in England that one gets to present his case and let the evidence speak for himself before you start lighting the proverbial fire underneath him? The one thing that andy stated to me was that the biggest mistake the BMC made was bringing these charges against him, simply because he now has access to documents that he would have never had access to before (for his defense) and not only will he be exonerated, but the BMC and pharma are going to wish they'd never persued this.

C L Sr, the central components of homeopathy are “the law of similars”, dilution and succussion. Hahnemann came to the law of similars through testing the effect of cinchona bark and noticed it produced similar symptoms in high concentration to malaria. There is nothing in western folk medicine (or I believe in Eastern folk medicine) that substantially uses any of these ideas. The only preceding ideas drawn on by Hahnemann were vitalism and miasms. Hahnemann put his ideas together over some 40 years. It doesn’t make them any more correct.

As to Dr. Wakefield, he is being investigated for:

1. Undertaking research without proper ethics approval
2. Failing to conduct research in accordance with his ethics approval
3. Conducting clinical procedures that were not clinically indicated
4. Inaccurately claiming the investigations as conducted were approved by the ethics committee
5. Dishonest and misleading conduct in relation to research funds
6. Ordering investigations on children contrary to his honorary position
7. Failing to disclose conflicts of interest
8. acted unethically and abused his position of trust as a medical practitioner by taking blood from children at a birthday party to use for research purposes without ethics committee approval, in an inappropriate social setting, and whilst offering financial inducement.

Now some of these points are quite clear. Either Wakefield did what was in the ethics approval or did what was written in the paper in Lancet. Perhaps he didn’t do what was written in the paper? Most of his co-authors have disowned the paper claiming that Wakefield lied to them

argonomist, all that you have stated is very easily googled and I am well aware of it. That doesn't change the fact that homeopathy and "natural " medicine uses many remedies from all over and from many centuries. I agree that this doesn't make it right, but then again , simply stating that "modern" medicine is based in science doesn't make it right either.
As far as wakefield goes, let the BMC have their go at him, I truly feel he will be vindicated.
The Denmark study that you referenced earlier is the biggest piece of junk science around. Had you done your homework, you would have realized that the U.S. Senate had INDEPENDANT researchers look into their findings and the Director of the CDC just had to apologize to the House Ways and Means Committee for continuing to reference it in their defense of vaccines.
This may be a big joke to those of you out there that haven't had children that have been the pharmaceutical companies colateral damage, but to me, this is much more.
to think that OTC medicines have certain subsets of people that are adversely affected and then to set up vaccines as "the Gospel" is what is wrong with this debate. we need to do things safer and they're not! Simple as that!

Sajo – thank you for the NCIRS link but again, that link had already been provided on this thread.

Methyl mercury has some 30 years research behind it, however, there remains very little information on the effects of ethyl mercury.

A collaborative meeting on Health and the Environment in Washington was held at Antioch University in Seattle during 2005. Stakeholders included representatives from public health departments, nursing associations, breast cancer committees, mercury awareness, ecogenetic and biotech experts etcetera.

Tom Burbacher, PhD, Research Associate Professor, University of Washington has been involved with mercury investigations for over 20 years at UW and advised there is very little information on Thimerosal (ethyl mercury,) or the effects of this form of mercury.

However, he also advised that the good news is that ethyl mercury clears faster than methyl mercury from the body. The bad news is that ethyl mercury does not clear as quickly from the brain as methyl mercury and it demethylizes – it is converted into inorganic mercury. This inorganic form has a half-life of years, and there is some evidence to show that inorganic mercury causes inflammation of microglia cells in the brain.

Stephanie Cave is on the Clinical Faculty of Louisiana State University Medical School, and since 1996 has treated over 2,300 children with autistic spectrum disorder. She advises that ethyl mercury from vaccines has exceeded WHO, EPA, FDA, and the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR) limits for exposure. The limits for an average 5 kg child ranged from 0.5 mcg/day for the EPA and FDA, to 1.5 mcg/day for ATSDR and 16.5 mcg/week for WHO.

The administration of the 2-month schedule for the average child was DTaP, Hib, Hep B is 62.5 mcg, or 125 times the safe limits set by government agencies.

Continued.....

contd.....

Agent Orange was supplied to the US for use as a defoliant during the Vietnam war. Monsanto knew of the serious health impacts in the 60s but continued to supply the US military. Agent Orange (2,4,5-T) is classified by most government agencies as a mutagen, carcinogen and teratogen.

Grandchildren of the Vietnamese sprayed with AO are being born with serious illnesses including hideous deformities. Do we now label this disease as "genetic?"

http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0401/pjg33.html

Mercury directly binds and alters the conformation of DNA and RNA. It is a carcinogen, mutagen and teratogen. It bioconcentrates and biomagnifies. Professor burbacher advises that ethyl mercury exposures are in utero (prenatal) and the thimerosal exposures are postnatal.

But can we assume that the parents of autistic children were also vaccinated with ethyl mercury? Have tests been performed on pregnant women for ethyl mercury due to the accumulation in the brain and the lengthy half life of this metal and the potential ramifications of the additional ethyl mercury administered to the progeny ?

Or should we ponder on the following paper:

http://209.85.175.132/search?q=cache:qy_0mz6jcnQJ:www.jpands.org/vol11no1/geier.pdf+%22Early+Downward+Trends+in+Neurodevelopmental+Disorders+Following+Removal+of+Thimerosal-Containing+Vaccines.%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=au

Celivia

I suggest you take Warthaug’s claims with a grain of salt – particularly about the Amish who are well known for their propensity to marry their blood relations.

When a researcher dumps all childhood neurological disorders into one bucket and labels it “Autism” – wow – that’s impressive!

Please provide evidence to support this fool’s assertions and more particularly, his claims that India has “poor levels of vaccination:”

http://www.whoindia.org/en/Section6/Section284/Section286_506.htm

http://www.springerlink.com/content/07400r410413215w/

C L Sr, changing the goalposts now? I agree that “natural” medicine, as defined by many, uses folk medicine recipes, but your original argument was <<4000 plus years of homeopathy>>. Homeopathy is not equivalent to “natural” medicine. Modern medicine is evidence-based and uses the scientific method. That means there is evidence from well-conducted studies that the interventions work on the diseases

C L. Sr <<the Director of the CDC just had to apologize to the House Ways and Means Committee for continuing to reference it in their defense of vaccines>>

Didn’t happen.

dickie, the Geiers’ paper incorrectly used the VEARS databases and made correlations between data that were untenable because of the way the data were reported. In addition, Mark Geier has been criticised over whether he had proper permission to conduct another study and also over his performance as an expert witness.

http://www.casewatch.org/fdawarning/rsch/geier.shtml
http://www.casewatch.org/civil/geier.shtml
http://www.casewatch.org/fdawarning/rsch/geierk.shtml

So, no it is probably not worth pondering this paper, because the approach is flawed and the Geier’s are not above unethical behaviour.

On ethyl mercury quite a bit is known about its toxicology and behaviour. It is removed quickly from the body. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16973445 http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/121/2/e208 http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/topics/thiomersal/statement_jul2006/en/index.html
http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/thimerosal.htm