I had a look at HRS's iefinternational site.
A very one sided advocacy site. They are against teaching about contraception because they think it undermines the abstenance message. They quote failure rates for contraception but not failure rates for abstenance. They focus on the disease risks for contraception users but ignore then completely for those relying on abstenance when it fails.

I don't often travel by aeroplane, when I do I'd like them to abstain from crashing. I pay attention to crash rates when I consider the price differences between airlines. Regardless of my views on crash abstenance for airlines I still want to have safety system in the airplane to cover contingencies.

The failure rate for condoms improves with experience by the users. That spells out the need for better education not less.

One of the papers I referenced yesterday spoke about the need to put a special focus on education for specific groups where some of those issues are worse.

I don't think anyone is claiming that condoms are perfect, they fail and people use them poorly. What we are saying is that the failure rates are lower than for abstenance only based programs (there appears to be no evidence that abstenance only programs make any difference). That kids are more likely to delay early sexual activity based on comprehensive sex education than based on abstenance only programs. That if people do make poor sexual choices they have a better chance of minimising the associated risks if contraception is in place and they have been taught how to use it and the limitations of it than if they are praying that she does not fall pregnant and that the other party does not have an STD.

HRS, do you have any objective research which shows that abstenance only programs have a lower failure rate than comprehensive sex education programs? Everything I've seen by way of research seems to say the opposite.

R0bert

"“I asked 800 sex educators if they knew that a person carried the HIV virus, would they have sex depending on a condom for protection. No one raised their hand.”
http://www.iefinternational.org/ppt/06_FLE.swf?id=14,20,0,0,1,0

Rather says it all."

It says nothing. If I asked 800 road safety engineers if they would take their car to work tomorrow knowing they would have a collision, and depend on a seatbelt to protect them, how many do you think would raise their hand?

You're arguing that if condoms aren't perfect, then they're useless. Truly, I invite you continue using such feeble arguments to back your case. It means abortion and contraception will always be available to Australians, and your church will continue to be seen as a blinkered anachronism.

HRS

For the third and final time, I remind you that I have nothing to discuss with you until you offer concrete evidence for your opinions.

Therefore, when you make statements like the following:

>>"Fractelle,
So you like to talk about people and not to them?

Are you a gossip feminist?
Posted by HRS, Tuesday, 22 July 2008 10:26:07 PM"<<

AND

>>"You can convince yourself that sex education and the condom are reliable, and then have sex with many different people, (because anything else could be patricidal, or belong to the religious right)."<<

You are merely outing yourself as a troll with nothing to contribute to the issue of unwanted pregnancies.

That R0bert actually bothered to give a considered response above is far more than you deserve.

Further, to reiterate R0bert's point:

There is no single perfect answer for preventing unwanted pregnancies.

As with any of life's challenges, we can simply try to do the best we can with the knowledge and technology we have and pass on our learning and experience to our children. That is all anyone can do - apart from loving each other and being there for each other when we inevitably stumble.

Robert,
Before you embark on your adventures with a pocket full of condoms, I think there are some questions you should find the answers to, as some type of advanced level sex education.

1/ If it does take 10 attempts to learn how to use a condom, then is this with 10 different people, or with the same person?

2/ If most condom failures occur when people are drunk, then do sex education classes teach people how to use a condom when they are drunk?

3/ Most abortions and STD’s occur outside of marriage, so do abortion clinics recommend marriage or not?

4/ Also, do abortion clinics give condoms to people who already have an STD, or only give condoms to people who don’t already have an STD?

Also, did you find out how many abortions, STD’s and teenage pregnancies occur in your favorite family type, the one with the highest levels of child abuse.

Fractelle, (the feminist gossip)
Next you'll probably start saying that you've been abused, but I’ll tell you a joke to help cheer you up.

How many feminist sex educators does it take to change a light bulb?

Feminist sex educator : - “Is a light bulb a condom?”

Excellent posts, everybody from the feminist conspiracy club!

Fractelle,
I had a good laugh about RObert’s fruity argument as well!
Practice makes perfect. I remember we practiced putting on condoms in sex-ed classes.
Stop gasping, HRS, it wasn’t on anything perishable.
We practise resuscitation on dummies. Dummies can be used for learning how to put on a condom, too. If you practice that 10x it reduces risk of failure.

Great research, agent ROO7bert,
“Abstenance works … when it actually works..”
I wonder how many ‘celibates’ it didn’t work for during the World Youth Day celebrations.
The media said that the sex industry anticipate a strong growth during WYD- but that this growth would be due to ‘tourists outside the Church’.
Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuure!

HRS,
Using safety equipment incorrectly can increase risk. Education about correct use reduces incorrect use.
With condoms the failure is mainly due to incorrect use. Go figure.
Do you think that Medicare is a feminist organization? If Medicare had a separate item number for abortions, statistics would be more reliable.

BTW I don’t deny that embryos/fetuses are human. They have human DNA just like nail clippings. But they are not persons, only potential ones.
“do sex education classes teach people how to use a condom when they are drunk?”
Actually, yes. My sex-ed classes discussed having sex when drugged or drunk. It was very good and realistic advice.
D’you want the gory details?

Iwonder,
Still spreading the breastcancer myth?
At best, it’s bad science, at worst, a lie.
Abortions are 11x safer than giving birth.

“women choose to have sex so they should take the consequences (like a baby!), not abort.”
Says who?
Women take the consequences of their own choice, not the consequences of YOUR choice.
“what'll you say to those babies that are born from 21 weeks?”
After birth, the baby has rights.
No embryo/foetus has rights unless it’s given rights by the pregnant woman.
What do you say to neglected/abused/malnutriced children that were not wanted?

There are also less obvious cases.
A mother at the school once said to me, within hearing distance of her two children, “I hate kids, I wish I’d never had them.”
I found that heart-breaking. How many kids out there are physically cared for but psychologically suffer because they know or feel that they are not wanted?

Every child should feel wanted and loved.
Children are far more 'sacred' or precious than sperm and ova.