HRS

Your posts are becoming increasingly nonsensical:

"Next feminists will be trying to brainwash people into believing that anyone who dies of an STD was not human."

Rather than provide clear evidence for your opinion, you either demand that others do your work for you or, as in the above quote, make simply absurd, generalist and defamatory claims about groups of people.

There have been many valid links to conclusive evidence regarding the benefits of sex education and easily available contraception, by most if not all other posters to this thread.

Whereas you cannot prove anything you have posted. As I stated previously, I am not prepared to debate you until you do.

Fractelle,
You don’t have to debate me.

You can convince yourself that sex education and the condom are reliable, and then have sex with many different people, (because anything else could be patricidal, or belong to the religious right).

However I wouldn’t advise it, and I don’t think many STD clinics would advise it either

HRS, I've never read anything from Fractille to suggest that she is personally promiscuous (not our business anyway). Support for better sex education to cut dowon on the number of unwanted pregnancies does not imply large numbers of partners as you seem to be suggesting.

History shows that people make bad choices sexually. Thats a given, as someone who would rather have less unwanted kids around and would also like to see less abortions the best option is for me to support moves that decrease the likelyhood of a bad sexual choice turning into dirty nappies and or an STD.

Sex education and ready access to contraception are two of the simpler to implement parts of that strategy. I also support better access to vasectomies (the out of pocket expenses are way to high at the moment) and reversal if tried later is far worse.

You seem to think that using a condom requires extensive and regular training. Perhaps you should buy a condom and try putting one on. It's not that complex when done sober - perhaps practice with a suitably shaped piece of fruit if it seems difficult. I expect the process is more difficult when you are tanked with booze, thats probably where most of the failures occur and definately not the time to be learning. It also helps to put environmental awareness aside, don't recycle other peoples condoms or reuse your own. A new one for each sexual encounter (and I don't know the etiquet for threesomes).

Preach abstenance if you like but a plan B is good to have especially where plan A has such a high failure rate.

R0bert

R0bert: << Perhaps you should buy a condom and try putting one on. It's not that complex when done sober - perhaps practice with a suitably shaped piece of fruit if it seems difficult. I expect the process is more difficult when you are tanked with booze, thats probably where most of the failures occur and definately not the time to be learning. It also helps to put environmental awareness aside, don't recycle other peoples condoms or reuse your own. A new one for each sexual encounter (and I don't know the etiquet for threesomes). >>

Too funny. However, I suspect that your words of advice are wasted on Timkins/HRS. Sex of any kind seems to be far too risky for him.

Probably just as well, I reckon ;)

Robert,
I don’t know what fruit has to do with it, but the failure rate for condoms in real life varies between 10% to 30%, and even if used correctly, condoms do not eliminate all risks (such as all STD’s) . If any type of personal protective equipment were similar, then it would be best to look for alternatives (if not required by government risk management legislation to look for alternatives).

The rates of STD’s and the rates of abortions are linked, and while feminists and others can try and hide the abortion rate by saying that the fetus is not human, or by not keeping proper statistics, or by saying that abortion is only a matter between a woman and her doctor etc, the STD rate cannot be so easily hidden.

I’m wondering how so many societies survived when they did not have condoms and sex education. STD’s for humans have probably been in existence for as long as humans have (100,000 – 200,000 years), so what did so many societies do to contain the abortion rate and the STD rate, and will this be told during a sex education class?

C.J Morgan,
You would probably be the No1 poster on OLO for flaming and name calling of other posters. Rarely do you debate anything with anyone or even mention the topic.

A typical example of your posts is here. http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=7669

As an ex university lecturer, you seem to think that using words such as “twaddle”and “poor old fellow “ shows high levels of articulation, debating ability and intelligence. What you learnt or taught in a university as a taxpayer funded academic is beyond comprehension, and it begins to concern me what children will be taught in these so called sex education classes.

"For male and female condoms, failure rates fall as users' experience grows." http://www.popline.org/docs/1625/290037.html
"Male and female condoms have fairly low rates of slippage or breakage, and such failure declines as users’ experience with the method grows, according to findings from a large observational study of women attending two Alabama STD clinics in 1995–1998. For example, 3% of all female condoms slipped out of the woman’s vagina; the rate was 11% at first use, but it fell steadily to less than 1% if the method had been used 15 times or more. Similarly, 3% of male condoms broke during use— 7% among first-time users, compared with 2% among those who had used male condoms 15 times or more. Multivariate analyses confirmed the association suggested by these rates."

"Adolescent Abstinence and Condom Use: Are We Sure We Are Really Teaching What is Safe? " http://heb.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/26/1/43
"Latex condoms effectively prevent pregnancies and most sexually transmitted diseases or infections (STIs), with method-failure rates between 0.5% and 7%, but with user-failure rates between 12% and 70%. Total abstinence presumably has a method-failure rate of zero, but research on periodic abstinence indicates user-failure rates between 26% and 86%."
and
"Abstinence-only curricula evaluations have demonstrated changes in adolescents’attitudes but little change in sexual behaviors. Comprehensive sexuality education curricula have demonstrated attitudinal changes and delays in adolescents’sexual activity."

There is a range of interesting material at http://www.fhi.org/en/RH/Pubs/booksReports/latexcondom/

Some results on a study into condom failure for male to male sex at "Correlates of condom failure in a sexually active cohort of men who have sex with men." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10225233

The common themes - better education and plety of practice equals lower failure rates. Abstenance education does not change sexual behaviour, sex education does.

“so what did so many societies do to contain the abortion rate and the STD rate”
They died of STD’s, they shipped their daughters off to distant relatives for a few months and forced those daughters to give up their unplanned offspring. They sent their daughters to backyard butchers with the risk of permanent harm or death to the daughter.

R0bert