I said: "In fact, the arguments made against Islam only apply when people are determined to only see extremists, and treat all people in that manner. The whole idea that 'leftists' are aligning themselves with abhorrent regimes is nonsense, which only makes sense when you view everyone as an extremist."

Allow me to present: Exhibit A.

"What a surprise! Who would have thought the usual airhead Luvvie Leftists would be allying with Islamofascism? Yeah, huge surprise. NOT! Tragically, there's one born every minute. The Luvvie Left has never encountered an illiberal, authoritarian fascist it hasn't embraced."

oh, so sorry, boazy. you weren't defending torture PER SE. my mistake.

stevenlmeyer, kactuz, boazy, and you others who love to pick nasty lines from the koran: could you please just stop that infantile cherry-picking game? you are just making fools of yourselves.

you know full well that the same silly game can be played with the bible, and with any centuries old religious text. and it says nothing of modern practitioners of that religion, unless those practitioners ascribe an absolute and literal truth to the text.

yes, there are loony muslims who treat the koran this way. yes, there are loony christians who treat the bible this way. but they needn't, and many do not.

it astonishes me that christians, who are in the glassiest of houses when it comes to questionable religious passages, are so willing to cast stone after stone after stone.

Bushbasher,

I'm not religious, but I've read both the Bible and the Koran. There is little doubt that the Koran contains a LOT more passages which are violent and misogynistic. Passy and many others seem not to have read the Koran themselves, or have read the "toned down" version.

The Christian haters out there seem to be saying, "the Bible has some ugly passages, the Koran has some ugly passages," ergo they are both the same. That's infantile.

I agree with you that many, if not most, western Muslims don't take the Koran literally, however they are commanded to do so by the text. Christianity, from my understanding doesn't dictate every aspect of how you should live your life, and therefore interpretation is expected. The Koran and the hadith on the other hand seek to define all aspects of the followers life, and denies independent interpretation

The problem we face is those people who do take the book literally. Because there are a number of highly unpleasant ramifications when this is_done. The literalist strains of Islam are on the rise and they are fighting for domination of their co religionists. It is pointless to suggest that it is racist to recognise the threat the literalist/fundamentalist aka Islamists, pose to our societies.

Multiculturalism has dumbed down cultural understanding to the point that most lefties have no idea about what other cultures entail. They are instead mollified by the warm feeling of accepting anyone, no matter what their point of view. Its a feel good exercise, not any kind of cross cultural understanding.

At the same time our own culture is derided, the left write off our ancestors as bigots, thieves and murderers. They never of course turn their critical focus to other cultures. Is it any wonder that young people of all backgrounds feel that they lack a sense of belonging. It sends many young Aussies on the trails to Gallipoli and Beersheba. Likewise young muslims search out the strength and honour they think they see in fundamentalist Islam.

We need to drop the whole black armband view of our history

It was a luminous day. In the small hours of the morning I had heard Boutros Boutros Ghali interviewed by a BBC journalist.

Now going for 86, he perseveres in doing his bit for Justice and Peace.

Tuned into his optimism, I went about my chores with renewed hope in the possibility of a world ahead of us.

But, by the time the articles of Keysar Trad , Bronwyn Winter, Natalie O’Brien and the 96 Forum participants got into me, I was again in the depths of despair.

I have not seen the inside of a University and have always imagined them as places where people go to search for virtue and knowledge.

I associate Universities with people like Galileo who suffered for his findings, Newton who had to battle the many prejudices of his times, Copernicus, the cleric that put knowledge before credulity, Machiavelli who showed that Popes and Princes share the same lust for power and the many, many other persons who have done and do without touching mass religions.

I thought that University-educated people were able to manage their own religiosity and needed not buy ‘packages of ready made beliefs’ at Church’s, Mosque’s and Temple’s doors or from assorted faith-merchants.

Crusades and counter crusades between religious power-packs have been and continue to scourge humanity, not counting the cruelties occurring within their own brethrens.

But whatever I thought is insignificant.

What counts is that humanity needs hope in the future and that hope can only spring out of justice and moderation.

Albert Trianni

I get the impression that I am talking to myself, no matter what explanation I give, some posters just harp on as if they have been projecting their own imagination.

Boaz, you are exercising Kitman and Taqia, you should read your bible less selectively. All of it, read the Old Testament and the New Testament. I have heard this before, Jehovah’s Witnesses and born again Christians always told me that their version of Christianity is not part of Christendom.

Are you in denial? I really do not wish to throw references at you, however, have a look:

Jesus said: I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is completed! Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. Luke 12:49-51

Jesus was tempted by Satan for 40 days MARK 1:13

Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. NUMBERS 31:17-18

However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the LORD your God has commanded you. Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God. Deuteronomy 20:16-18

They devoted the city to the LORD and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it—men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys. JOSHUA 6:21

It is not strange that you do this Boaz, after all, Paul said:

But be Yet, crafty fellow that I am, I caught you by trickery! 2 CORINTHIANS 12:16

There is a lot more of this in the Bible, but I come to preach Love and not a divisive debate.

Gynx, email me, would love to hear from you.

Kindly pardon my lapse in the third paragraph from the end of my Post. Please read:

Crusades and counter crusades between religious power-packs have been and continue scourging humanity and mention must be made of the cruelties meted to those in the midst of a pack who slightly depart from ‘party lines’.(I was thinking of Gerolamo Savanarola and Giordano Bruno who certainly have their counterparts in any religion