mac,
My critisism of you is for raising the politics of war in the first instance. Anzac is NOT for that and never has been. Please read Izzo's post, on page 3, if you really want to know what Anzac day is about. Izzo is absolutely correct. Also consider carefully what Foxy had to say.

By all means discuss and debate the politics of war and stratagies, etc. but do not associate that with Anzac day. Anzac day is for paying homage to all those who have served our country. Remember the warriors not the politics of war.

o sung wu,
I am angry and embarrased by the conduct of some towards our Vietnam Vets. Those who acted so disgracfully should be really ashamed to say they are Australian. I just hope that at least some are remorseful and realize how idioctic they were. Please understand that they were few and that Vietnam Vets have our overwheming support and respect.

As with diggers of all eras, you blokes worked professionally and done us proud. The world wide respect for our diggers is not without reason.

mac,
My critisism of you is for raising the politics of war in the first instance. Anzac is NOT for that and never has been. Please read Izzo's post, on page 3, if you really want to know what Anzac day is about. Izzo is absolutely correct. Also consider carefully what Foxy had to say.

By all means discuss and debate the politics of war and stratagies, etc. but do not associate that with Anzac day. Anzac day is for paying homage to all those who have served our country. Remember the warriors not the politics of war.

o sung wu,
I am angry and embarrased by the conduct of some towards our Vietnam Vets. Those who acted so disgracfully should be really ashamed to say they are Australian. I just hope that at least some are remorseful and realize how idioctic they were. Please understand that they were few and that Vietnam Vets have our overwheming support and respect.

As with diggers of all eras, you blokes worked professionally and done us proud. The world wide respect for our diggers is not without reason.

Passy,

You aren’t just all those things, your thick as well.

On ANZAC day we honour and remember those who served and those who continue to do so in an AUSTRALIAN uniform. We don’t celebrate the Rum corps or the rest of Britain’s forces in Australia on ANZAC day.

There were very few wars with Aboriginal tribes anyway. Most destruction was wrought by disease and famine. In any case Aborigines central role in our Australian story is not forgotten. Recognition in the constitution is coming.

Aboriginal Australians are honoured on ANZAC day for their service to their country in uniform.

Passy >> “It wants to honour particular wars and make those kind of aggressive imperialist wars acceptable to future generations”

I wonder how it is you can call the First World War a war of imperialist aggression on our behalf. Or the second for that matter.

How do you reconcile this with the “Kultur” and ‘Lebensraum” cries of two German armies? How do you explain away the invasion of France and Belgium in the first war? How do you explain the invasion of Czechoslovakia, Austria, Poland, France etc in the second war? These were wars against fascism. Particularly the second war. How can you condemn democratic countries for fighting fascism? Even the Soviets did it.

The idea that a defence force only ever fights in its own country is a fallacy that is attractive to the empty-headed. If Britain and Australia conducted the defence of our country on the back foot like that, we would have seen the whole world speaking German or Japanese.

Only a really narrow minded individual could fault our participation in WW1 and WW2.

BTW, if you read O Sung Wu’s comments you would have noticed that he actually was one of those blokes in the trenches.

And conscientious objector is Marxist speak for “COWARD” . You and your lot were hoping for a communist win but were only prepared to throw paint and abuse veterans whose boots you aren’t fit to lick.

For peace? I don’t think so. You just support the other side.

The article conflates pre-conceived notions.

Whether a collective identity is built on the war mongering of capitalist classes or the, ahem, gentile political rehabilitation of the Stalins and Maos of the world, the authors contention is a study in delusional non-sense.

Self identity is the stuff of 'delusion.' It is constructed on a base of self-deciet (delusion). None of it is real. It spawns all the ills of the 'world.' The grand delusion(s) of self identity (ego) is what causes wars in the first place. Its all the 'l, me, mine' stuff and the desire to give physical/tangible form to the imagined non-sense swilling about in our heads. For example, the act of material possession, ownership or control (direct or indirect), rationalised as 'me' (capitalism) or 'us' (socialism) is driven by the personal desire to give tangible permanence to our delusions. Grand folly and oh, so addictive.

The article's contention is propelled by ideology. Contradiction, rationalisation and self deceit are fundamental to developing and promoting ideology. The idea that war comes uniquely from the flavour of a (political) delusion (capitalism rather than socialism) is ironic, in an unconscious sort of way.

To seriously redress the root cause of the worlds ills, start by challenging the illusion of self identity and leave off the compounding effect of that non-sense by complicating it with mass projected, collectived delusions, like 'national identity' or 'nationhood.'

These socially codified delusions (class) are effective ways to keep people mired under the self imposed limitation of the comfortable lies that define social classification. Why subdue and manipulate people through coercion and violence when its so much cheaper and much more pervasive to get them to do it to themselves, by buying into class propaganda, with its attendant self-fulfilling 'us versus them' resentments. In this case, the contrived division of people along the lines of 'monied versus labouring' classes is very useful in the service of political agenda. All behind a veneer of care and compassion. Very cynical. Very typical.

If the current govt is any gauge, then this sort of thing is going to get worse.

I would suggest ,that on next year's Anzac Day ,the author of this piece ,read it out at the biggest memorial march.Particularly to the surviving members of the RSL.
[Deleted]

Hi there 'PASSY'...

You know you're correct. Upon reflection,I really am just a silly old 'fart' ! Anyway, I was a regular, so I really couldn't have qualified as a 'conscientious objector' even if I wanted too.

Look my friend, I'm not trying to pick a blue with anyone in this particular thread. Nor am I trying to deprecate or trivialize the personal views or arguements of those who possess a very different attitude or belief than myself.

What I am saying is that many returned men and women view ANZAC day in many different ways. Some of my former mates like to be 'loud'. And often become even 'louder' as they vainly attempt to accommodate even more refreshment as the day lengthens. Quite often, these blokes are simply trying to mask their inner feelings and even deeper emotions.

Then there's others, me included, who like to be left alone. Not wishing to seek the company of others (including spouses). Personally, I find ANZAC to be a wretched and sad day. As I said, I shun ALL company. But hey, that's me !

PASSY - It's not the veterans you should be targeting. It's their Governnment. The Vets. are merely the pawns of a much larger game indeed, and generally, the Vets. aren't even appraised of the rules.

One of the 'posters' herein, overheard someone wish another "... have a happy ANZAC Day..." (or similar words). I reckon that sentiment alone would manifestly reflect, how many people today would now view the occasion of ANZAC Day. That says it all?