TWO:


Bronwyn:"I stand by my words, Ginx, and won’t be intimidated by your bullying tone. I knew your comments were directed to someone else. The only reason I picked up on them and I am perfectly entitled to do so in an open forum,...."

"....specifically because I was addressing someone else."

Didn't you understand what I meant by specific??...?
OF COURSE it is an open forum. That's the reason I put the above,-as a RESPONSE to YOUR 'bullying'. If you choose to 'jump in so strongly' when I am addressing another poster, you earn the 'bullying tone',- but with a qualifier that it is specifically because I was addressing another poster-NOT making a general open post;-but a specific one...?

Have your dig by all means; but expect a response, OK?

(It did have one positive outcome. Mac had her excuse and you got a compliment!)
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You (general) criticize those who instigated the day;-those who sleazily market it, and you want the whole thing 'demolished'. By doing that you remove the one day these poor sods have to remember their dead comrades and plain strut their stuff!

I know EXACTLY what 'you' are saying. I am saying that if you throw out the bathwater, you throw out the baby.

Leave them alone. It is ONE day for God's sake!
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Unfortunately, I now must add to this.

I recall Frank Gol referring to his distaste for the repeated reference to 'the Left' or 'the Right', (I agree, though I see the Conservative by far making such a references. The Left seem to be more sure of their ground...).

To take the view I have, well;-I must be on the 'Right' mustn't I?. How nice to get some endorsement therein. The automatic assumption and the so predictable rants against the Left,- include me!

I am a Socialist. A SOCIALIST. And I do not give a monkey's testicles whether that does not fit your view of my view!
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SO?....,who shall we have a go at now? We've got a whole year before we revisit this.

Ginx

I don't hate everything about Anzac Day and I don't necessarily want to get rid of it. I just hate the circus it's become and the way it affirms war. I'd like to see it become a day where we lay a wreath and honour the memory of all of war's victims. Forget the medals and the flag-waving. Remind each other of the horror of war and work towards ensuring we don't keep repeating the same old war cry. Let's dish up last night's SBS program "Gallipoli" each and every Anzac Day and make it compulsory viewing.

I have a lot of sympathy with socialist views. I'm probably one of the minority of posters here who will support your views in this area. I know cultivating alliances wouldn't be important to you, but there's really no reason for you to be jumping down my throat and blaring out things at me in capitals. For the most part I admire your posts and your posting spirit and have made a point of saying so at one stage on another thread. I'm not the enemy here, Ginx!

Yes, I agree, OLO does create some strange bedfellows at times! I've just found myself on the same side in a current debate as OLO's most strident religious fundamentalists! So I can relate to your musings concerning where you've positioned yourself on this particular thread! I guess it's further proof, as if any was needed, that no one controls your thinking!

david f

Thank you for your second history lesson! Much appreciated!

In this thread, two good points were made:

[1] We need Anzac Day because that is all we have.

[2] If we never had an Anzac Day but a Remember the Suffering and Waste Day we would never have been led by the nose into Vietnam and Iraq.

All European countries have a day like Anzac Day, when emotions equal to those we indulge in here are openly displayed and similar rituals performed.

Were it possible to remind the celebrants, just for once, of the atrocities that war inflicts not only to the young people who fight, but to those who just happen to be in the way of the armies, probably the drinks that follow the day would be necessary to drawn sorrow and regret.

Unless we are of clay

If it wasnt for our defence how would you be living, could be better than the dictatorship we have now.

Hows your mandarine, german, asian

maybe you prefer iraqi

Anzac day is about the spirit
To stand and fight even though it is bad
It is about standing up and fighting for ones rights
Its about what you would do to help others
Its about how far would you go to fight for freedom
Its about selflessness
Its about putting your body and beliefs on the line to fight for someone elses freedom.
Its about doing whatever it takes.
Its about rememberance of those who paid and are still paying for standing up for someone elses freedom and rights.

Stuart Ulrich
Independent
Ex Army

O sung wo. Thanks for the reply. My father was in the navy for twelve years. He never went to Anzac Day. Maybe that was because he had seen first hand as a child the devastating effect service in World wars One and Two had on my grandfather. And yes, my argument is with the state who send young men (and some women) to war for their own imperialist reasons. I am reminded of Eddie Ward, a former ALP Minister, who said of Menzies that his brilliant military career was interrupted only by war (or words to that effect.) (And by the way, I am an old fart too. These days we disguise it by calling ourselves grumpy old men.)

Ginx, when you say you are a socialist, you might like to explain your vision of society. This post is not the place for a debate about socialism so maybe one of us on the OLO left could write an article and begin the discussion.

Trade215 you talk about the delusional nature of class analysis but I am not sure where the class analysis is in this article. There is a fair amount in one the day before by John Passant. Maybe you were referring to that article? If so post it there.

TurnRightThenLeft you say Anzac Day is not about left or right, it is about remembering the fallen. Actually I think it is about left and right and my article the day before attempts to indicate why. Why were they the fallen? What was the nature of the war? What role did our troops play, why do we always fight overseas with our powerful friends in the main? Anzac day helps justify Iraq and Afghanistan. I know its more complex than that, but wars always are.

Paul L I love you. I am glad you can take time off from your busy psychiatric business to diagnose me, and for free. Let's talk doctor and patient next post.