".......about the way war is being celebrated in this country today."

Posted by Bronwyn, Thursday, 8 May 2008 12:24:45 AM

How in the hell can we be on the same side when you come out with this??

Gawd! It bloody irritates me Bronwyn! War is NOT;-categorically NOT 'celebrated'!!

TJ: you said much the same on 27 April. They didn't listen then, and they are not listening now.

Too many points yet to score.

BRONWYN...

Thank you for your contribution to this thread. I've read you post carefully. Consequently, I've taken aboard your comments, opinions and criticism, in the hope that the next war that this country chooses to prosecute (and if I'm sent), I'll endeavour to 'celebrate' that war as a compassionate, caring and thinking soldier.

Further, I sincerely regret not living up to David F's moral standards either. I guess that is the difference between veterans of WW2 and Vietnam ?

And sadly, I was a regular ! As such, I guess there is probably more culpability assigned to me as a volunteer, then if I were simply a conscript ?

Bronwyn, perhaps you've opened up a completely new area for establishing the 'Rules of Engagement' ? Inculcating a much more avant-garde approach and mindset for the soldier of the 21st Century !

Hopefully producing an infinitely more omniscient, empathic and sensitivity individual who by necessity will quietly muse upon the legitimacy or otherwise, an order that he may receive during the course of battle.

To: SAINTS and PAUL L...

Both of you have kindly encouraged me to relate my 'story' as it were, of my two tours in SV.

Perhaps it would be better if you were to put you questions to either BRONWYN or DAVID F. It would appear that they have a greater knowledge of those times and events then I ?

Thanks SAINTS. You say:

"Since those years I still remain in contact with so many of these boys (now men) who try to live day by day.....the trauma of what they witnessed and experienced won't go away and hasn't for many of them.
Anzac Day should never be replaced, as it is a day of remembrance and a show of respect for all our serving personnel."

Let us agree on this then - war is hell. And the Government (and perhaps many sections of society) throw those who return into the dustbin of history (or at least did so for Vietnam Vets.)

Where I disagree with you is on the role of ANZAC day. Like the author I believe it does actually create myths about war, and prepares the next generation for the next set of wars. It is powerful tool for politicians to lay the groundwork for accepting our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, for example.

Of course it is other things as well, as you and Ginx and others have pointed out. In my view that doesn't detract from its main purpose of inculcating in the next generation the honour and valour of "just" wars , ie just from an Australian elite's point of view. I just happen to believe no war is just and even those we are involved in which have the guise of justice (and not just the propaganda of justice) are actually on closer examination really battles between differing versions of imperialism.

But I think given the chasm in Weltanschauung shown on this and other Anzac Day posts that perhaps we all just agree war is horror and work for a world without war.

o sung wu

I watched Parliament Question time yesterday and was heartened to hear both Leaders remember our Vietnam Vets on a special day of rememberance in the Vietnam Conflict....the combat they were speaking of went on for 4.1/2 weeks the longest combat within one area during the entire Vietnam War.

We lost 26 Aussie men with 111 seriously wounded.

Both Leaders acknowledged the Vietnam Vets courage and dedication during this war. They also acknowledged the fact that many returning service personnel returned home with many illnesses which continue to plague their lives to this very day.

Both Leaders also apologized for the treatment Vietnam Vets received upon returning home by the Government of the Day, including the fact it took 20 years for the Government to acknowledge our Vietnam Vets. Hear, hear.

Dr Nelson finished his speech with - "Lest we Forget".

I congratulate both Leaders for their remembrance speech yesterday to our Vietnam Vets.

o sung wu - Maybe both Leaders have been reading this thread. The thread has been most interesting reading for many reasons. If you are able to obtain a transacript of yesterday's apology by both our Leaders to the Vietnam Vets please do so. They said much more in recognition of service to all you guys. Space here will not permit me to write the entire speech. I did take it down as I wanted to save it for my friends who - like you - also served and came home so traumatized.

I wish to ad my words of respect to all fallen service personnel - "Lest we Forget".

Passy

You say -

"Let us agree on this then - war is hell. And the Government (and perhaps many sections of society) throw those who return into the dustbin of history (or at least did so for Vietnam Vets.)"

I agree with your above comment, - war is hell any war is hell.
I also agree that the Government of the Day did certainly toss our Vietnam Vets into the proverbial dustbin of history.

Refer to my above post - maybe both Leaders "lifted the proverbial lid of that dustbin" yesterday with their remembrance speeches in recognition of service by our Vietnam Vets.

I still disagree with you as to the role of Anzac Day. I don't agree that it creates myths about war.....there are no myths about war, just hard-cold facts.

Hard-cold facts with our serving personnel who lost their lives fighting for our flag, our country, our beliefs, our freedom, whether it be in World War 1, 2, Korean War, Vietnam War or our current conflict with Iraq and Afghanstan.

The role of Anzac Day for me (and I believe for many others) is a day of "remembrance and respect" for lives lost by all serving personnel in all wars.

I don't believe in respecting Anzac Day it is "glorifying" any war and preparing the next generation for the next set of wars as you say.

Anzac Day - "Lest we Forget".

Passy,

You say >> “I believe it [ANZAC DAY] does actually create myths about war, and prepares the next generation for the next set of wars. It is powerful tool for politicians to lay the groundwork for accepting our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, for example.

Absolute, unadulterated rubbish. The French for example, as a society, are far prouder of their military exploits, (what there are of them) yet this didn’t drive them to war in Iraq or Afghanistan.

There are many other nations which proudly honour not just their war dead, but also their military prowess, yet aren’t involved in Iraq or Afghanistan. And then there is Japan, where even mention of the military is almost Taboo, sending soldiers to Afghanistan.

Get your grubby hands off ANZAC day. You cannot work towards a world without war by forgetting about the cost of war. Anyway, as Ginx says, (one of the only sensible things she’s ever said), ANZAC day is Veterans day, they get to decide what it stands for, not you or me. Anyone caught out using ANZAC day for their own political benefit will face a strong backlash from the community.

You say there is no just war, but what about “the Revolution”, man! What about the oppression of the working classes, dude. Can’t they “throw off their shackles” and take up arms against “the man”? Like, far out man.

I take great comfort imagining you babbling endlessly into your tea about the revolution and the imperialist stain, like an autistic child.