My father never attended an Anzac Day parade, although he wore his RSL badge on his suit lapel, he refused to have anything to do with the organisation.

He experienced first hand the atrocity that is war, he suffered all his life as a result. As someone previously pointed out, if Anzac Day truly become a remembrance of what war really is, then Australia would've not have blindly supported invasions into Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and all the rest.

Dad, may you rest in peace. I love you and miss you. For all that you returned from service a depressive and alcoholic you never raised your hand in anger to me, my sister or our mother. You truly learnt what being a pacifist meant. I am glad you haven't seen what a glorification of war that Anzac Day has become for so many people, people who have never heard a gunshot, let alone faced down the barrel of a gun.

I know you were a hero - even if no-one saw you, you remain one of the very best of the unsung heroes.

Passy,

the speculations about class possited relate to this article not the one you suggested. Respectfully, the nexus you draw between this and that appears to misrepresent, possibly as a result of assumptions driven by misunderstanding.

Nevertheless.

Class being an illusory social distinction (faulty perception that contrives apparent yet false divisions) , it essentially permeates all discussions about social phenomena, like war and the warring classes (voluntary and coerced) and their sponsors ('ruling' class). The claim of delusion relates to class itself, to the nature of classification of phenomena, rather than the analysis of the various classes. A bit like how ice is formed by low temperatures (delusion), rather than the flavour of whats being frozen (classification).

Hope this clarification assists.

Thanks for the advice and thread moderation.

Fractelle,

You are quite happy to honour your own war veteran. Yet you want to deny the rest of us this opportunity. Please point out for me which part of ANZAC day is the glorification part.?

Is it the dawn service when we remember those, like your dad, who served or who never returned? Or the parade when old soldiers get together and march in memory of their comrades in arms and in pride of their service?

Tell me how exactly is today’s ANZAC day different to those ten, twenty, fifty years ago?

We also need ANZAC day to let those who have stood tall in our nations’ service know that we remember and value their sacrifice, that they are part of us and have done nothing wrong; to combat exactly the type of ugliness that the so-called “peace-activists” perpetrated upon the Vietnam veterans. We should never forget the black hearts of those ugly Australians and never allow it to happen again.

SJF,

Every year, more Australians turn up at ANZAC day events like the dawn service at Gallipoli.

Those who attack ANZAC day today are the cultural warriors of the soft-left who’ll accommodate any barbarity as long as it’s foreign and culturally correct. It’s the self flagellating west-haters who still subscribe to the myth of the ‘Noble Savage’. Those who insist upon a negative view of our past based upon an appreciation of today’s “Politically Correct” values. You won’t find any of these armchair culture warriors criticizing the Wahabis for keeping women’s rights in the 8th century, but they’re happy to frame our remembrance of the fallen as “extremism”. You’ll find them silent when a leading university takes funding from foreign govt’s and their moderate student unions are being over-taken by terrorist sympathisers, yet they scream and wail about honouring those who served our country selflessly.

Truly, the soft-left have lost touch with reality. According to their bizarre ideology, it’s the democratic and liberal west which must be overhauled, not the dictatorships and theocracies of the third world.

Of course …, they’re foreign, they must be OK.

Hi there ** FRACTELLE **

I read and re-read your thread, apropos the difficulties your Dad faced when he returned from the war (WW 2 I presume ?).

You further stated that your Dad never supported the RSL albeit he wore the badge on his lapel. I suspect he wore the 'Returned from Active Service Badge', as opposed to the RSL badge that was issued by the League (RSL). The former was/is issued by the C'Wealth Govt. to all three services, provided you had seen 'Active Service' in a 'theatre of war'. It should be noted that there is a very clear defination of a 'theatre of war .

Anyway, that aside, your Dad was oh so typical of many returned men, and to a lesser degree women. Most returned home as mere shells of their former selves, and by and large were told to get on with life and they'll be right (usually by those who NEVER actually saw an angry man)

Both my Grandfather's (one was in the Boer war, and the other in WW 1 and he later became a TPI) were similarly so advised. I'm 65 years, and STILL attending the VVCS (Vietnam Veterans Counselling Service). So I know EXACTLY where you're coming from !

Accordingly, I really feel for you and yours FRACTELLE, absolutely ! Most of these individuals will never talk of the war or how it had affected them. Though their silence often speaks volumes.

Take care FRACTELLE.

Paul.L

For a person who claims to have studied history and politics at university level, which for most people is a humbling and mind-broadening experience, you certainly have maintained a narrow and unquestioning view of The West's place in history and the world today.

I'll ignore all the snide little references to the 'soft-left' etc which do nothing to advance the debate and only serve to highlight the paucity of your argument. But I object strongly to conscientious objectors being labelled as 'cowards' and peace activists as 'ugly Australians'.

Contrary to your aspersions, these are perfectly legitimate and responsible positions to take and they are, as indicated by SJF's observations, gaining renewed ascendancy. People are increasingly weary of military solutions being the only on offer. There is a growing awareness that arbitration, negotiation and discussion are saner and safer alternatives to violence, war and killing.

Paul L wrote:

"Truly, the soft-left have lost touch with reality. According to their bizarre ideology, it’s the democratic and liberal west which must be overhauled, not the dictatorships and theocracies of the third world."

We should recognize torture and injustice wherever it takes place whether it is in the democratic and liberal west or the dictatorships and theocracies of the third world." It is not always the others who are in the wrong.

One excuse for injustice is, "Look how terrible the others are." The current president of the United States supports torture. He has tried to kill the International Criminal Court and the Law of the Sea which previous US administrations have worked to build up to reduce the chances for conflict and bring those who violate human rights and international agreements to account.

In democratic society one point of free speech is to call our own governments to account. Bronwyn has written well.