Fellow_Human, if you wish to believe in 'Intelligent Design' then that's fine by me. However, monotheists seem to arrogantly assume that because the Universe is 'Intelligently Designed' religious people HAVE to choose Judaism, Christianity or Islam. This is sheer nonsense. For example, Deists (eg. Thomas Jefferson) have believed in God for centuries but have also appreciated that the Bible and the Koran are flawed historical texts full of contradictions. Deists also reject the Bible and the Koran because they also rightly assume that these 'revealed' texts encourage violence, bigotry and tribalism.

To put it simply - belief in God ('Intelligent Designer') does not necessitate a belief in Judaism, Christianity or Islam.

Goodthief, I thought that I had made it quite clear that the problem of monotheism cannot be overcome with radical politics. Rather, I am promoting well guided public education via the education system (primary to tertiary) and mass media (print and electronic). I believe that the education system and the mass media has failed society dismally by failing to reinforce the intrinsic benefits of science, naturalism, rationalism and sceptical thinking.

It is about time that society deliberately promoted the idea that supernaturalism is a backward and harmful way of thinking.

Thanks TR,

I thought Science was already held in high esteem. Perhaps I was mistaken. Anyhow, I agree that its achievements, both actual and potential, should be known.

I also agree that everyone needs to be taught to think independently and critically. This incluldes theists like me, but it also includes atheists like you. (It's one of the reasons we're here in this Forum, isn't it?)

You have not responded to the other things I said about atheism. You are yet to establish that atheism is true, or at least provide some reason for recommending it. Instead, you seem to be just assuming it's true, and critiquing the views of people like me on the basis of that assumption.

You think we should all be empiricists, but why? It seems so limiting to me, so why would I subscribe to it?

Pax,

GZ Tan

There is a flaw in your argument. There are over 1 billion Muslims, but perhaps 70 Muslim states. 1 billion is a huge number 70 is not. A low probability is much more likely to occur with a large sample than with a small.

TR

I think that "Intelligent Design" is a red herring. I am not a monotheist but it is possible that a deity could have thought out natural selection as a way of creation, knowing its result? After all, what happened before the big bang? How did the collection of energy get there in the first place? Why did atomic particles exist and why did they obey the laws of physics?

The religious texts and the statements about heaven and hell and a relationship with a deity are a separate issue and in all probability cannot be tested with scientific method, they are a matter of philosophy. Moses, Jesus, Mahomet and Buddha could all be considered philosophers like Aquinas and Spinoza. The fanciful aspects of their stories could be myths woven around them. That does not negate the values they preached. That is why I am an agnostic with leanings to Theism and cannot dismiss in theIslam the way some posts are doing.

And thanks to everyone for their posts. This is getting interesting. I am learning as well as developing my ideas with all of you people.

'I thought Science was already held in high esteem. Perhaps I was mistaken.'

Goodthief, the scientific method is little understood by the public. The fact that the Theory of Evolution is so poorly received by the general public is a sad testament to this. The assault on science by the 'Intelligent Design' movement in the US is enough to make you weep.

Unfortunately people for reasons best known to themselves still believe in angels, demons, jinn, spirits, ghosts, UFO's, ESP, alien visitations, astrology, horoscopes, tarot cards, astral projection and a whole host of other similar pseudo-science and bunkum. No, we do not yet live in an age of scientific rationalism.

'You have not responded to the other things I said about atheism. You are yet to establish that atheism is true, or at least provide some reason for recommending it.'

Goodthief, I am not agianst the idea of God as described by Albert Einstein or Paul Davies. Indeed, the Universe could be teleological with intelligent life being the natural outcome of the Big Bang. What I am totally against is the idea that the Torah, Bible or the Koran are reliable and factual books that are a good basis for ultimate truth and morality. All three texts can be easily demonstrated as being untruthful. That is, Jesus the corpse did not really rise from the dead (this is impossible) and Mohammed did not recieve the Koran from an angel (there are no such things as angels). What's more, it can also be easily shown that all three texts encourage violence, sexism, bigotry and tribalism. The empirical evidence for this is overwhelming.

Once the horrible dogmas of monotheism are rejected the answers to human existence become existential. That is, each person creates their own meaning and happiness with the general purpose of making society the best it can be. Personally, I hope that my local community is a nicer place for having me in it (?) I believe that there is no room for shallow materialism or nilhism in the atheistic world view.

Logic,

Actually it's not whether there are only 70 Muslim states or 1 billion Muslim States that matters. It is the logic itself.

Your "1-billion-Muslims" logic is such a well-worn cliche that I was surprised it came from you.
As much as I was surprised a statement of yours implied you only recently figured out FH is a Muslim (1 May 2007 "Topic: Palestinians and Jews stand united").

Anyway, sticking to the same logic, given that there are over 1 billion Muslims, and because of these large numbers, are there always a few Muslims that do not believe in a prophet Muhammad ??

I suggest such a cliche of a logic is frauded if not correctly applied.

No one, not even me, doubts that extremists Islamists tend to be a minority. But Islam is an ideology that is proven to drive out freedom and democracy, irregardless of whether 7 Islamic states or 700 Islamic states.

A secular democratic Islam state can only be an exception rather than the rule. Such an exceptional Islam state will always struggle to remain secular and democratic.

If Muslims world population is small, always remain small and never increase the way they do, do we even worry about a few extremists?

Due to traumatic experience of Jews, do you therefore empathise with any group that is victims of stereotyping? I suppose this is a reasonable position to assume.

But I suggest we take exception with Islam. Perhaps stereotyping is what (typically prejudicial) human beings need, partly as an "automatic alert-mechanism" against a very deceptive, dangerous and organised religion.

TR,

I agree with your point there are similar arrogance amongst followers of faith as much in the non-religion/ agnostic group. I don't belong to any club that belives they know it all either through magic recipe books of the future or others. I think its a good practice to recognise that all what we know is a drop in the ocean and we still have a long way to go.

GZ Tan,

Research done in this field is considered sensitive intellectual property which medical and pharmaceuticals companies will not make public.
If the subject is of interest visit the library of www.paranormal.com or just Google “medical research on animal telepathy”. When I was working in this field, it was a known fact that animals communicate and exchange emotions remotely regardless of distance. The puzzling question was the ‘how’.