Fellow Human: Yes, I understand you are not in a position to console me. My point, which was not clear, was a different one. People are very clumsy with their powerful emotions. If we don’t manage them, they morph and we extrapolate. So, fear becomes anger, even hate, fairly easily. And, while our anger is against Islam and some Muslims, it’s "natural" (though wrong) to direct it towards Muslims generally. I have earlier (perhaps on a related string) said that fear management is something the non-Muslim population has to get into: reduce the fear by getting informed; and then, despite the fear, behave rationally and honourably.

My interest in “the numbers” relates to the first strategy (getting informed). The event that alarmed me more that 9/11 was the global destructive lethal tantrum over the Danish cartoons. Perhaps it was all orchestrated by extremists, but it concerned me to see so many seemingly ordinary Muslims stirred up into violence so easily.

Johnj and TR: I missed your earlier posts because I was writing as you were posting. Johnj, I agree with you: it’s the interpretation (and, really, the behaviour) that matters, and it’s only a secular state that is in a position to insist on peaceful behaviour regardless of what one’s Book says.

TR: I’m very happy for atheists to be more assertive than they have been. We theists have been on a roll for a long time, and even those of us who do not wish to abuse power or privilege might be doing so, and a wake-up call is a good idea. However, a couple of things in your post alarm me: the expression “zealous disbelief in God” and Michel Onfray’s “change is at hand and THE TIME HAS COME FOR A NEW ORDER”. Can you unpack that new order for me, please: it sounds potentially dangerous.

F.H. agree with your comment about the title being unfair to Australia. *tick* :)

but POINT 4 ooooh yes.. as goodthief went straight to it, I also did, without seeing his post.

Point_4 is exactly why I have made such a song and dance about Quran 9:30 it clearly condemns ME personally and Goodthief and all bible believing Christians and calls for our destruction.

It is because Christians believe God the Father when he declared to the crowd at Jesus Baptism "Behold, my beloved Son, with Him I am well pleased" that the Quran calls for our destruction.
You have clearly confirmed this by suggesting the only 'good' Christian is a "muslim" one. The OT supports Christ as Son of God.
(Isaiah 9:6 among others)

There is no way out of this. You have 2 choices....
1/ Claim this declaration was a later 'Christian' insertion.
2/ Deny and disbelieve it no matter where it came from.

Given that the Lord Jesus:
-Healed the sick, gave sight to those born blind, strength to the paralyzed made the deaf and mute hear and speak.
-Calmed storms, walked on water, turned water into wine.
-Raised the dead,
-Rose from the dead.
-Met Paul and transformed him from marauding murderer to peaceful proclaimer.

I'd be inclined to believe that declaration. (not to mention the one on the mount of trasnfiguration)

Now.. when I looked into the pagan Muslim faces of the 13 men at the committal hearing in Melbournes County court, I have to say my subjective impression was not that they were overflowing with tolerance and love towards infidels. Failure to stand up for the Magistrate, is not a good look.

If such people even withOUT being convicted have such contempt for our legal system, how much more might they have if they actually had power?

I believe the most serious weakness of our system is that it does not address the foundation beliefs of extremists, and seek to rectify them.
So, I don't mind having a dabble here in a public forum.

In todays SMH there are several articles about muslims. In the lead article Waleed Aly and Ahmed Kilani both claim muslims are victims of media bias. Should the media not report the gang rapes or gang bashings? Various terrorist attacks from around the world, the cause of the Cronulla riot and the revenge attacks? Or the outragous comments of Sheik Hilali and Sheik Faiz Mahommed? Maybe not report on the trouble caused by the Danish cartoons?

What Muslim leaders should really do is condemn outright, without any qualifacation, any terrorist attack and secondly lay the blame for local problems right where it should be, with the Leb muslims. Most, if not all, local problems has been caused by the actions of the Leb muslims. We all need to know this and it is unfair that other muslims should share the blame.

Until the muslim leaders face this, poor reputation will follow muslims in general.

What does a "pagan Muslim face" look like? How does it differ from a rabid Christian face?

Hi Banjo,

Yes Australia is the best Muslim-friendly country and it flies right in the eye of anyone who says differently. I can write a full article on OLO about it. Agree with your comment re freedom of the media except for Sheikh-Hilaly: he seems to ‘sell well’ to old lebs and the Aussie media.

TR,

There is a difference between a faith and how is taught-practised.
My view is simple: religion is inherently neutral spiritual medium and acts like a mirror: Hitler and mother Theresa saw different things in the very same religion. History shows atrocities committed in the name of religion and non-religion everywhere in the world. Answering your question: I am just a Muslim. I like Sufism spirituality but extreme Sufism is passive and confusing.

Goodthief,

I think your approach to conquering fear is good. A couple of comments if I may:
Using the media coverage of Danish cartoons is inconclusive. If you lived in this part of the world you will find out the media is as manipulative as a good ‘balanced and fair’ western media.

Your view is correct: fear leads to hat which leads to violence. It’s the message I am trying to convey to Boaz for months. I think fear is a personal choice and the only way to conquer it is to reach out and interact and learn about what you fear. My personal summary of living and travelling across east and west is this: all humans are looking for the same things: a job, good living, healthy family and healthy social life.

Boaz,

You need a serious ‘rewiring-job’ to cover your theological arrogance. The point is we should not be concerned with approving each other religious contents. Muslims won’t change scriptures for your feelings and we are not asking you to recognise our prophet or faith to respect our feelings. Its sterile. You don’t believe in my faith and I don’t believe in yours BUT I accept you as is and will defend to death your right to practice your faith. Will you be able to do the same?
Peace,

'However, a couple of things in your post alarm me: the expression “zealous disbelief in God” and Michel Onfray’s “change is at hand and THE TIME HAS COME FOR A NEW ORDER”.'

Goodtheif, this quote from Michel Onfray is best seen in the context of France and Western Europe where Islam is fraying European cultural identity. Europeans now realise that the assertions of Muslims cannot be combated by traditional Christian theology which is ill equiped to confront fundamentalist Islam.

Hence, the term 'NEW ORDER' means that atheism replaces Christianity as the intellectual tool of choice for decontructing Islam. Of course, atheism will also hold Christianity to account but its main aim will be to dismantle fundamentalist Islam.

French intellectuals therefore aim to use any public platform to lampoon Islamist theological and sociological claims. For example, Michel Onfray himself 'preaches' from Caen University with good media coverage. Other secular groups and prominent atheists have also hit the print media hard.

Now, with all that in mind I will simply say to Boaz and Fellow_Human that both your religions are founded on pure fantasy.

Corpses do not spring to life on the third day. This is pure nonsense and goes against every single rational, medical and scientific principle that has ever been elucidated. Jumbled historical accounts written by four unknown authors are no excuse for being intellectually stupid.

The Koran did not come down from heaven (where ever that is) via the angel Gabriel because there are no such things as angels. There is no hard evidence that angels exist, or ever have existed. Angels are no more likely than unicorns or fairies and to believe in the existence of angels is intellectually stupid. The Koran was written by human authors in exactly the same as any other book. There is absolutely nothing miraculous about it.

Both Boaz and Fellow_Human are wrong to believe that virgins can get pregnant. This is a medical impossibility. Again, trusting in the hearsay of dodgy historical documents is no excuse for being intellectually stupid.