sunisle

Who are the millions of fellow human beings who are being persecuted by people of Ted's religion? Millions being persecuted by a small minority religion? Are you mad or so full of hate you cannot see reason?

And are these ficticious millions of "persecuted people" so silly and incompetent that they can be persecuted by such a small bunch? Have you been watching too much Doctor Who?

And when you wrote of indigenous people I thought you were refering to the original inhabitants. But who were they? Jews were in Egypt and Iraq long before the Arabs arrived. This did not stop the Egyptians and Iraqis from pushing their descendants out.

And once again what about the 800,000 Jews forced to leave their homes throughout the Arab world with only the shirts on their backs. Do you have a concern for them too? They are not training their children to kill and maim others and blow themselves up in the process. They got up off their buts and worked hard for a new life. Their descendents now occupy half of the Israeli nation.

And eet

The above paragraph refers also to you. You want Israel to pay compensation to the displaced Arabs but don't expect the Arabs to pay compensation to the displaced Jews. Why not? Who has the oil wealth? Would you give these Jews a right of return? And the Copts? Do you have one law for Muslims and another for infidels?

The trouble is that you gentlemen swallow completely the Arab propaganda and then twist the argument to the Zionists who you imagine to have some incredible powers over the world. The Russians and the Nazis invented that ridiculous line. The anti-Israel anti-Zionist cartoons and stories now in Arab newspapers are simply poor copies but the gullible left believe it.

You talk about the view of the West. They all had a gutfull of recent terrorism and know that it is coming from one direction. That is what shapes their view

And misquoting lines from Jews who appear to support you doth not an argument make.

Logic,

I can only presume that yuo have never been to the ME and that you do not read with depth.

If you had been to Gaza and the West Bank you would know what I am talking about. Gaza is an open air prison and the West Bank is being made into one as we speak; if you do not want to believe a non-Israeli's critisism if this nation's cruelty to the indigenous people, try reading the works of Illan Pappe, Uri Aevnery, Dr, Uri Davies- a Palestinian Jew- and Dr. Tania Reinhart, who was in Sydney last week- but I don't expect that you went to hear her talks.

Better still, go see for yourself. I defy any decent person to see what Israel is doing to the indigenous people and not come away disgusted and full of compassion for these people who have suffered for nearly 60 years. Just go!

Logic

Thank you for your respect.

I quoted the Arab League peace proposal from 2002. It guarantees those things Israel would expect. As I already pointed out Barak never made a final offer. He was thrown out by Israeli electors before he could.
Yep the Temple Mount/Al-Aqsa Mosque site is importsnt to both religions. Perhaps an International Administration of the site could be managed? (N.B. Not all Christians think it important.) Jerusalem could be claimed by many groups including the Spanish, Romans, British etc.

Neocommie.

You'll get only one opportunity to withdraw your stupid remark.

But just for fun conside the following:
The Bible was written more than 57 years ago yet there are groups of people who swear it is relevant to today and use it as a basis to claim ownership of land.

Mind explaining what relavance the bible has to the political situations of 2006? ;-)

Israel offers the usual socialist totalitarian solutions to problems: Subjugatio

Logic

'They are not training their children to kill and maim others and blow themselves up in the process.'

This is the type of propaganda we've suffered for years. Lebanon undermind that in our minds.

Tell me does conscription teach youngsters to pander to each other?

Fact: Most, not all but most, Israelis are conscripted.
Fact: Conscription trains children to kill amd maim others.
Fact: How many suicide bombers?
Fact: How many Israeli conscripts?

Israel has a couple of things in common with North Korea.

Most North Koreans are trained for warfare. So are most Israelis.

keith

Unfortunately Israel has been under heavy attack ever since it was first formed with a UN resolution. The attacks were by people who wanted to destroy it and some who shouted that they wanted to push the Israelis into the sea.

Like wartime Britain and Australia it trains every male in the military. (So does Switzerland). In fact I was the first in my generation not to have to do compulsary national service in Australia. Israel unlike N Korea (and Switzerland)is under continuous threat. So it must do what every threatened nation does. No people like to be killed or destroyed.

That is also why the Gaza strip is an enclosed area (some say like a prison). Gaza is a chief protagonist against Israel. What would you or sunisle do if placed in a similar situation? Israelis don't like their families, their children being continuously exposed to rockets and suicide bombs. The settlers should never have been there and I did not like Sharon but the settlers were removed from Gaza and the inhabitants of the Gaza strip given there own government Which they never had under any former administration.

What did they do? Immediately started firing rockets on Israel and tunneling under the border and killing and capturing Israelis. They then voted for a government which as a policy refused to accept Israel. What message does that give? Where do you think they would be now if still under Turkish or Jordanian rule?

And why are children acting as suicide bombers? I know of no other people who are doing that. Certainly not the Australian aborigines or the native Americans who are (sunisle take note) genuine indigines.

I have been to the middle east (not just Israel). And I read with at least the same depth that other contributors do.

Logic,

I see that you have ignored the Israeli academics I spoke of; you also ignored the quotes; this is what I mean about reading with depth, rather than parroting the propaganda in the brief headlines in rag newspapers. Do you ever read the Guardian or even Haaretz...any world newspapers?

You also ignore my point about the IOF homicide killers being more deadly that the much fewer suicide killers of the Palestinian resistance...and most Palestinians do not agree with this tactic....that's why they are so few. The homicide killers, however, are part of this nation's policies toward the indigenous people. THey, unlike the few young people who kill themselves to fight back, can go home after killing, have dinner and come back the next day to kill again. ADDRESS THIS ISSUE.

If you do not address the above issues- in reply to your comments- I can only presume that you wish to just keep parroting the propaganda and not think deeply about this HUMAN issue.

And it is not Israel that is under atack- if you had REALLY been to the occupied Palestinian Territories you would know this. It is the millions of indigenous people who have been under attack for almost 60 years.

Where did you stay when you were in the occupied Territories? What are your views on the "settlers" having Jews-only fortified towns and roads inside the terrritories, whist the indigenous people have to struggle through roadblocks and along side roads in their own land?

What are your veiws about the huge wall that surrounds Gaza, with only one entry/exit comtrolled by the stromtrooper IOF? What are your views about these same thugs not allowing the farmers to sell their produce? Whata re your views about human rights groups denied access to wounded people by these same thugs