Wobbles, first it was "at least 22 US Congressmen". Now it’s "some US Senators". (Do you understand that the terms are not synonymous?) Then you give a list of Jewish members of the Bush Administration, apparently lifted from some anti-Semitic website. Some may hold dual citizenship? Perhaps. But they could likewise be citizens of Australia or Guatemala, for all we know. Interesting that you failed to mention James Wolfensohn and Martin Indyk, both of whom served in Bush's first administration and are of Australian origin. (No, they’re not Israeli citizens.)

You haven't demonstrated that any of these people are Israeli citizens, and none are Senators or Congressmen! You have no real reason to believe that "at least 22 US Congressmen" are Israeli citizens; you simply made it up.

In fact, there are currently 26 Jews in the US House of Representatives and 11 in the Senate. I don’t think any are Israeli citizens. In a recent election campaign, the loyalty of one Congressman was questioned based on the false allegation that he is an Israeli citizen and served in the IDF. The charge was widely recognized as carrying anti-Semitic overtones, even by the Congressman's opponent, who lost the election.

And Wobbles, there is no problem for US citizens who hold dual citizenship to vote in non-US elections.

Wobbles: "...It was to highlight inconsistencies…"

I don't follow. How does your false allegation that 22 US Congressmen hold Israeli citizenship highlight "inconsistencies" related to Australia?

Keith, yes, there is a "definite chance". So what? There is also a chance that Australia will fight a war against New Zealand, which would put a whole lot of people in a similar bind. Is that cause for concern? Or that Australia will go to war against the USA. Should journalist Fawaz Turki (who has appeared on this site) and Nicole Kidman (who hasn't) be worried? Or against the UK, which might be a problem for your shared monarch. It's been estimated that 20-25% of Australians have dual citizenship (see http://livinginharmonyaustralia.blogspot.com/ ). Do you question the loyalty of them all?

Just as the IRA are a self appointed bunch of blood thirsty terrorists and an organisation completely separate and distinct to the Irish Government, So too Hezbollah are a self appointed bunch of blood thirsty terrorists and an organisation completely separate and distinct to the Lebanese Government.

To make a single point of difference, the government of Israel was appointed by democratic process and acts as the authority of a sovereign nation where as Hezbollah has not been appointed under democratic process and does not act as the authority of a sovereign nation (the Lebanese government having, thus far, not expired).

The double standard which Barnes, in his usual inept way, pretends to observe in others merely illustrates the workings of a malevolent and manipulative mind, by pretending that, chalk is cheese and the duly elected government of Israel acts with no more authority than an unelected and prohibited terrorist organisation.

There is no double standard anymore than chalk is cheese and Barnes a Bard.

There is just the piffle of the impotent, for the like mindless to agree with.

Oh on the matter of dual citizenship, my understanding was, with regard to USA, dual citizenship was not allowed. To become a US citizen, one is required to pledge allegiance to the USA & Co and renounce all other citizenships (I recall Rupert Murdoch having some problems in this area). This is a different to say, UK and Australia, both of which recognises “dual citizenship”.

ETHNIC CLEASNING.....on a massive scale is the ONLY solution to the Hezbollah presence and threat......

Why ?

Simple. When a verbose spokesman for Hezbollah says:

"We will fight for 'our land' forever against the agressor... our children, parents, grandparents.. we will all fight the aggressors and protect our land"

errr.. duh.. mate.. YOU ATTACKED ISREAL......

We can now identify this 'we attack but its your fault' mentality which is endemic and recurring among the Arab Muslims in that area, it is a terminal disease.

I PREDICT..... (through simple common sense :)

1/ Hezbollah will not only not disarm, it will RE-ARM with more and better weapons and a more radicalized population.

2/ Ultimately it will begin harassing the UN force which will pull out or just slink off to a corner of irrelevance somewhere.

3/ Hezbollah (and HAMAS) will continue to use any means available to 'remove the zionist entity' from the "Islamic Waqf" of Palestine.

4/ Ethnic cleansing as I've outlined will not happen. (world opinion)

5/ The conflict will continue to simmer until Iran goes Nuclear when it will suddenly surge onto the front burner.

From this point on.... the timing and chronology are speculative.

6/ Israel will begin to rebuild its Temple.... ?

7/ War (with Islam) will follow Israel will be defeated.

8/ The temple will be defiled, Islam will be set up as 'The mouthpiece of God' (the False prophet referred to in Revelation)

9/ Tribulation.....

10/ Armageggon

11/ Christ returns.

30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (Mat 24:30) lets remember ..."Jesus" himself said this.

12/ Judgement. 'Sheep' or 'Goats'.

New heaven, New Earth...

In your case the judgment will be: goose.

Col Rouge, the US allows dual citizenship, and millions of Americans are also citizens of other countries.

You are right that to become a naturalized US citizen, one must renounce other citizenships. But as the Wikipedia notes (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization ), "whether this renunciation actually causes loss of the person's original nationalities will again depend on the laws of the countries involved."

The oath for new US citizens includes renunciatory language, but this is not enforced. The US does not require that one communicate this renunciation to the relevant governments. Even if the other countries are aware that one has renounced one's citizenship, some ignore the renunciation when it is done as a condition for US citizenship, and some honor the renunciation but make it easy to reinstate one's citizenship after it has been renounced.

All this relates to people who become US citizens, not to US citizens who acquire additional citizenships. In the latter case, the US basically ignores whatever additional citizenships one has. It doesn't prohibit dual citizenship, but makes no special provisions and gives no special treatment to dual citizens.

My case is typical: The United States considers me an American citizen, and does not care one way or another that Israel considers me an Israeli citizen. Likewise, Israel considers me an Israeli citizen, and does not care one way or another that the United States considers me an American citizen.

Re the examples I gave, Nicole Kidman is a US citizen by jus soli, because she was born in the US, and an Australian citizen by jus sanguinis, because her parents are Australian.

James Wolfensohn and Martin Indyk are likely only US citizens, because when they acquired US citizenship, this act was grounds for Australia revoking their Australian citizenship. (Australian law has since changed.) The same is presumably true of Rupert Murdoch. Re Fawaz Turki, this site says that he "grew up in a Palestinian refugee camp in Beirut", "spent his youth in Australia", "made the US his residence for the last 32 years", and "is a dual citizen of both the United States and Australia".

Dear Strewth

In my last post I was making the 'ultimate' point u know....

In the end...it doesn't matter if ur Arab, Jew, Westerner, Greek etc...
what matters is whether our names are in the Book of Life.

The determinant of our names being in that Book, is, whether we live in covenant relationship with God. Such covenant relationship is through Christ, via repentance and faith in Christ and the Gospel.

No matter what angles I present on the Palestinian/Israel situation, this is the utlimate solution. (and to all human conflict) Having a citizenship in Heaven is the best approach to human existance. But we don't want to be so heavenly minded that we are of no earthly use...right ?

I had an interesting conversation with some bloke at 'Resistance' Melbourne yesterday, and discovered that they urge a ONE (secular) state solution, which surprised me. He said they campaign for the right of return, but not to a 'Palestinian' state, to a 'single' state where all have the same rights etc.

Well intentioned but quite naive. Demography and history would 'trainwreck' such an approach.

Your passion for 'justice' is noble, admirable and commendable. But its one sided, and it's 'time-bomb' nature does not make it appealing to those with a sound knowledge of history and human nature.

I enjoy our 'combat' with words, but I feel my last post is closer to how things will pan out. I think we are indeed witnessing the gravest and most exciting events of history in our own time.

My heart does go out to people like you, because you are so focused on things which are good for 'passion and debate' but not very workable in real life. There was a song a few decades ago "Jesus is the answer...for the world today" by Andre Crouch...simplistic yes, but true non the less.

cheers from the goose...
*honk* :)