It is a pity that certain of our contributors could take more of a balanced view of Middle East problems, looking back through history to realise that much of America's interests as well as Britain's is still to do with imperialist-style hegemon and contraband.

Furthermore, the anger from the otherside or the Muslim-side, is typically anti-colonial, failing to admit that certain aspects of colonialism have been part of human progress, yet justifiably according to most social scientists, ready to fight to the death to defend areas in which they have lived long enough to call their homelands.

So looking well back through history, us American led Westerners, which certainly includes nuclearly-armed Israel, are probably not much different than the Roman Empire, maybe having thoughts of the total elimination of a nuisance peoples, as the Romans finally did to Carthage in North Africa, and not having the ability to pulverise from the air like the Israelis, slew or enslaved all the citizens, and what they could not burn of Carthage, pulled the rest to pieces brick by brick.

As much as we might like to get rid of what some of us term nuisance peoples because of their beliefs, any one using sound reasoning must realise the impossibility of finding a balance without a United Nations, which unfortunately both warring sides have advocated the destruction of.

Great points Greig.

What of those Audstralians in the IDF engaged in the illegal occupation of Palestine, the Golan Heights, Gaza (Yep still occupied) Shaba Farms, The West Bank and East Jerseulem. The occupation is controlled not by Israel's parliament but by the IDF. How should the Australian Government view them and their activities?

One other question needs exploring. Where would the loyality of these people lie if Australia happened to go to war against their organisation or Army?

I'd suggest membership of any terror organisation or another sovereign nation's armed forces should automatically revoke citizenship of Australia.

Yutusu

'There have been some accidents where civilians who were told to leave but either refused or were not allowed by the enemy to stay away from terrorist installations, and of whose presence in particular locations Israel was unaware, were sadly killed.'

Qana was not an accident. The IDF admitted knowing there were no terrorists present. It was a civilian building. The Geneva convention is incident specific and the dropping of leaflets does not exempt the officers involved from ensuring they adhered to the provisions of the GC. The key provisions: they must have satisfied themselves the civilain structure was either being used for military activity AT THE TIME, or the structure was of a strategic import. Should the later apply it was the officers' responsibility to ensure no civilians were present BEFORE they issued orders for attack.

Their precision bomb killed women and children who were sheltering in that civilian structure. Unless the officers involved can show how they ensured no civilians were present it was a war crime.

Hezbollah is guilty of several war crimes, targeting of civilians was only one. In assessing such an issue if you wish a comparison with Israel you must also take into account not only frequency but also potency for killing or maiming. I don't think you'd really want to go down that track. Precision guided bombs against inaccurate terror rockets is only one example of imbalance.

Amazing you accept the lies of the Israeli's! They operate on exactly the principle you cite.

I like the way the Israelis used their superior weapons technology in targetting terrorists hiding under bridges, at Beirut Airport, in Hospitals, in ambulances and driving in unmarked cars and in relief convoys.

Those red crosses on a white background must just be too tempting not to be used for target practice.

That fighter pilot who scored a direct hit on children playing in a creek next to a refugee settlement was particularly skilled at spotting Hezbollah members.

Likewise, those people killed on the beach before all this started must have secretly been terrorists as well.

It reminds me of the Israeli sniper that shot that man and his young son in Palestine a few years ago. Unfortunately (for him) it was all captured on film.

Imagine what damage they could do if they just fired indiscriminately at civilians.

I believe that at least 22 US Congressmen hold dual Israeli citizenship so I have little doubt there are several Australians fighting for Israel right now.
If any Australians choose to fight for ANY other country and are later convicted of War Crimes, will our government bail them out or do a "David Hicks" on them?

Seymour Hersh is the most respected and awarded journalist in the world over a 40 year career and he has belled the cat in the New Yorker this week.

Israel, the US and Blair plotted this proxy war months before two soldiers were taken as sort of a practice run to see if they could take out Iran.

That is not only utterly amoral it is a war crime on a mammoth scale inflicted deliberately on innocent men, women and children to teach a different government a lesson.

The only parallel I can think of in recent times is blowing up Afghanistan because some Saudi's blew up the WTC, or then there is Iraq blown up for no reason at all for some reason known or unknown to the imbecile Rumsfeld and here in Australia where our own government locked up refugees from Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan because they were to discourage others.

That is all amoral and illegal - off to the Hague with the lot of the scum.

As for Hezbollah - this brand name Hezbollah has nothing at all to do with the "terrorism" the old PLO did when they were trying to kick the Israelis out of Lebanon the last couple of times.

They are just Lebanese citizens - I wonder how many times the stupid and blind have to be told that simple point.

They are no different to the French resistance trying to kick out the nazis and while Israel insists on occupying the Shebaa farms they will exist to kick them out.

We would do the exact same thing if Indonesia invaded us and took our land, water and resources.

Enough with the terrorist group already. I advise everyone to watch "IN the Shadow of the Palms" by Wayne Janess-Coles and see how the Iraqi civilians felt about us terrorists in the west plotting to blow them up without cause.

No empathy at all in this country any more.

Greg, I share your distaste for the Australian Goverment's double standards when it comes to Israel and its foes. However, I have to take issue with: "Despite the fact that Hezb. has some very unsavoury attitudes and that its actions against the Israeli people have, over the years been so callous and brutal as to justify the tag 'terrorist organisation', some of the conduct of the IDF in its current Lebanon foray have amounted to human rights abuses." I make the following points:

a)No liberation organisation has spotlessly clean hands, including Mandela's ANC, or views that always cleave to the letter of the UDHR. However, for Hezbollah to be blithely dismissed as you have done with the label "terrorist organisation", citing alleged unspecified "actions against the Israeli people", is far too broadbrush an approach to shed any light on the issue.

b)"SOME of the conduct of the IDF"? An army that expelled 85% of the Palestinian population in 48-49, invaded Egypt in 1956, invaded (and occupied) the Golan Heights, the Gaza Strip and the West Bank in 1967 (and maintains a brutal occupation of same to the present, committing war crimes on a virtually daily basis), and has invaded and occupied Lebanon several times over, cannot by any reasonable standard be viewed as somehow in balance with the crimes of Hezbollah. The IDF's mountain of war crimes broke the scale ages ago.

For once I agree with Greg Barns, which is rare as I find his articles quite abhorrent. Israel was created by a terrorist invasion, and continues to survive only on the fear it inflicts with it's constant terrorist attacks against just about everyone around. The damage done to the zionist occupied land, by those seeking justice and the return of their property, is like a drop from a tap. Compared to the flood of debauchery and barbaric mayhem, the Jewish terrorists of god create around them.

Anyone who fights for another country and who's a citizen of this country, except by military exchange, should be stripped of their citizenships. It make no difference who your fighting for, you are either Australian or something else and we only want Australians in this country. I'm all for getting David hicks back, from the despotic clutches of that other terrorist faction of god. If our laws said because he was fighting for another country he should lose citizenship, I'd support it. But not retrospectively.

I believe both factional terrorists have lost this conflict, not only in a military sense, but logistically, morally, ethically and world support. The USA and Israel, look like bunch of barbaric thugs, as usual. Hizzbollah, looks stupid, because it's foolishness will in the end, lose it support within Lebanon and else where.

We should petition the government, to ban all those who fight for anyone else and eliminate dual citizenships in this country. Then offer all from the 3 god factions, the chance to prove their support for their god in his promised lands, in the manner their accustomed to and presently using. It's about time they proved their dedication and support for their god and faction. Or is their belief in god, just an excuse and their only prepared to yell from the back, instead of making the sacrifice for their god.

Any takers, I'm not holding my breath, just laughing at you all heading under the bed with your fearless dedication. Come one, Gods on your side, he'll protect you, where's your faith.