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The Forum > Article Comments > The murky world of war > Comments

The murky world of war : Comments

By Greg Barns, published 15/8/2006

Howard and Ruddock ought to warn Australians serving in the Israeli defence forces as well as those who support Hezbollah.

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Strewth,

1) Yes (correct)

2) No (not correct)
Posted by sganot, Tuesday, 29 August 2006 10:20:02 AM
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sganot,

How is 2) not correct?
Posted by Strewth, Tuesday, 29 August 2006 10:31:17 AM
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Strewth,

2 is incorrect because:

*Person2 could be a child, grandchild, or spouse of a Jew; a spouse of a child or grandchild of a Jew; or converted to Judaism.

*Person2 could acquire citizenship by naturalization.

*Some Palestinian refugees have acquired Israeli citizenship through family reunification or by marrying an Israeli.

*"+ children, grandchildren, etc" wouldn't necessarily apply in all of the above cases.

Worth mentioning:

a) Although Israel is a democracy and its citizens enjoy equal rights (with the caveat that equality is always an imperfectly attained ideal), it is also the Jewish state, expressing the self-determination of the Jewish people; facilitating the development of a vibrant Hebrew culture; sheltering persecuted Jews, etc. Just as the immigration laws of many democracies (Armenia, Finland, Germany, Greece, India, Ireland, Spain, etc.), give preference to people of a particular ethnic group associated with the state, Israel's LOR gives preference to Jews.

b) The logic of Res. 181, which, if not for the Arab occupations of the WB&Gaza, could have given rise to Jewish and Arab states living side by side in peace, was that Jews and Arabs in Palestine would each fulfill their national aspirations in only part of their historic homeland. This is the logic behind the two-state solution, Oslo accords, establishment of the Palestinian Authority, Geneva draft peace agreement, etc. In this framework, it would make no sense for Israel to have a LOR for both Jews and Palestinians; and presumably also for Palestine to have a LOR for both Palestinians and Jews.

c) At Lausanne in 1949, Israel offered to let 100-200,000 Palestinian refugees return as part of a peace agreement. The Arab delegations refused to discuss peace or even to deal with the Israeli delegation, so the idea was dropped.

d) Palestinian Arabs have been in a violent and even existential conflict with Israel since 1948, and with Palestine's Jews for at least twice as long. Thus, even if Israel had no LOR, one would expect it to block the immigration of Palestinian Arabs. Why take in people who are determined to destroy the state?
Posted by sganot, Wednesday, 30 August 2006 12:31:02 AM
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sganot,

So the key to returning to Israel is either to have a biological connection with a Jew, be married to a Jew or become a Jew by conversion?
Posted by Strewth, Wednesday, 30 August 2006 8:08:21 AM
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I am curious.

On the maternal side of my family, I am a direct descendent of a Jewish woman - Great Grandmother. We even continue to prepare fish and chicken according to Jewish recipes, handed down mother to daughter.

Anyway, does this mean I could live in Israel? Even though I am not religious?
Posted by Scout, Wednesday, 30 August 2006 8:22:19 AM
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Scout,

If your grandmother was also Jewish, then there is no doubt: you can migrate to Israel and become an Israeli citizen on your first day there.

If your great-grandmother was Jewish and your grandmother did not deliberately convert to another religion (suppose she just drifted away and lived a secular life, but was not baptised or attended church either), then you are eligible, that is, so long as you yourself have not deliberately converted to another religion: it even does not matter whether your parents converted, but if they did and you were born to another religion, then you are still eligible on behalf of your grandmother. Your current non-religious lifestyle is irrelevant to the LOR, and indeed most Israelis do not consider themselves "religious".
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 30 August 2006 9:46:17 AM
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