And Gilad is completely wrong. I suppose being an "Ex Israeli" makes im an "insider" so by that logic. Every other israeli citizen (the vast majority of whom have served in the army btw) is an "insider"and therefore there words carry just as much "sway" so when they talk about the lengths their government goes to prevent civilian deaths. My friend watched one of his good friend sin his unit die because after seeing someone who they knew was a terrorist, they had to creep up on him to confirm that he had weapons before being able to fire. He opened fire on them first, killing him.

I suppose Timothy Mcveigh had great insight into America, seeing as he was a "Former American"

oh and btw strewth, Hezbollah is anti semetic (and anti american) they killed 115 and injured over 400 people in the Jewish embassy and a jewish community center in Buenos Aries. They killed 241 Americans in Lebanon, and killed 63 when attacking the american embassy.

“If they go from Sheba'a, we will not stop fighting them. Our goal is to liberate the 1948 borders of Palestine...[Jews] can go back to Germany or wherever they came from.”

— Hezbollah spokesperson Hassan Ezzedin
New Yorker, October 14, 2002

“If they [Jews] all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide.”

— Hezbollah leader Sheikh Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah
Lebanon Daily Star, October 23, 2002

Strewth,

Could you share a little about yourself? Would love to know what makes a person like you tick.

Yuyutsu,

I have read before about the 'honour/shame' issue in Arab cultures that can cause problems when Westerners and Arabs negotiate (think I read this in an old artcle from the CIA website) but I remain unconvinced this alone accounts for the stubborn Palestinian unwillingness to negotiate on a realistic basis. Patience and face saving concessions are a major part of all negotiations, whether they involve Arabs, Westerners, Asians, etc.

My best guess as to why the Palestinians seem unable to negotiate cohesively with the Israelis is they are constantly hijacked by foreign interests, whose alignment with the Palestinians extends only to their shared hatred for Israel. Unless the Palestinians can separate themselves from these 'allied' influences, a peaceful two state solution appears unachievable.

Strewth:

1) You want to engage in name-calling instead of dialogue, that's your business. Have a nice life.

2) Most of your response is further non sequitur...

Refugees have no absolute, unconditional right to return to their former homes and lands -- not in Res. 194 and not in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Art. 13 of the UDHR says "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country." From this, one might posit that Palestinians who left Palestine have a right to return to Palestine. Not their descendents, but the people who actually left; not to the exact homes they left behind (which in most cases no longer exist), but to their country; not to Israel, but to Palestine. If the Palestinians had accepted Res. 181 in 1947, this would have been possible. If they had negotiated a final status agreement along the lines suggested by Barak and Clinton, it would have been possible. And perhaps it's still not too late for the Palestinians, though most who left in 1948 are no longer alive. If a Palestinian state is established in Gaza and the West Bank, this too could enable Palestinian refugees to exercise the non-absolute rights laid out in the UDHR.

3) The total population of Palestine in 1948 was about 2 million -- 1.35 million Arabs and 650,000 Jews. The UN estimates there were 711,000 Arab refugees from the 1948 conflict; add a few thousand Jews who were forced out of East Jerusalem and the West Bank. Conclusion: Approximaetly 35% of Palestine's population at the time became refugees.

5) A "cleaner south Lebanon" is one without armed Hizbullah guerrillas violating Lebanese sovereignty and attacking their Israeli neighbors. Now it is the job of the UN and the Lebanese army to get rid of them, and this isn't ethnic cleansing.

6) More non sequitur...

It is puzzling that one can find a stack of "ex-Israelis" “refuseniks IDF reps”,“non-conformist Jews” etc -both inside & outside Israel- who openly & vocally criticize Israeli policy or practices.

But no LIVING examples of parallel individuals/groups from the other side.

Now why might that be so?

Kalin, I must agree with you.