EnerGee,
It’s not a matter of who has been planning it the longest. It’s a question of their aims in this conflict. So far we have 35 Israeli civilians killed (six of them Israeli Arabs) and 69 Israeli soldiers. As opposed to the Lebanese casualties – 900 Lebanese civilians and 100 Hezbollah soldiers. And all in the space of a few weeks. To me this screams a greater agenda than just to eliminate Hezbollah. Israel wants land in the South of Lebanon and it won’t be able to acquire it with Hezbollah causing trouble.

Hezbollah is an army of 3000 men. Hardly a formidable force yet just like the Viet Cong they use effective guerilla tactics. Funny that a lot of people are comparing this conflict to Vietnam with many Israel soldiers not wanting to fight in a place where they have already suffered defeat.

The Americans also claimed back then that the Viet Cong hid in civilian areas and in villages so they could use the high civilian casualties to recruit more Viet Cong members. It was propaganda back then and it still is propaganda. I find it hilarious that Israel thinks it can use this excuse again without anyone noticing.

I don’t see the Arab governments as posing more of a threat or a tyranny than Israel and I think anyone who claims this is just trying to divert attention away from Israel’s own atrocities.
Tezkidd – the only thing Israeli citizens should fear is their own government for putting them in such peril and danger. Now that Israel has attacked Downtown Beirut they are planning to attack Tel Aviv. So much for invading Lebanon in the name of defence! They have exacerbated the situation.

Hezbollah was trained by Iran to help counteract the first Israeli attack. Hezbollah was born out of Israel’s own actions. Just like Saddam is in place because of the US. UN resolutions calling for peace never work because they get vetoed by the US.

Since when is it illegitimate to seek to influence legislators in a democracy? Since when is it illegitimate to be successful in seeking to influence legislators? It is what workers do through the unions; it is what lawyers do through their associations; it is what ethnic and cultural minorities do when they want something from government; it is what bike riders do when they want more bicycle paths.

Whether rightly or wrongly, many Jews believe they are involved in an existential struggle and they therefore seek to influence those governments that are susceptible to influence i.e. the democracies. Hence the "Jewish lobby". When is a lobby illegitimate in a democracy? When it is Jewish!

If the Jewish lobby is illegitimate, then so are the trade unions, the bicycle associations, most NGOs, the Law Society and any other organisation that goes to Washington and Canberra etc... That is fascism.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1839280,00.html

San Francisco chronicle blows the whistle on war planning in the US last year and the crimes commited by both side over 6 years with Israel being the greatest offenders by far.

It is a crime against humanity to bomb civilian areas at any time and in any place and it is a further war crime for the Bush, Blair and Israeli cowards to pretend it was in response to a skirmish on the border.

What of earth will Israel ever achieve by continually doing this to her neighbours? Some of the people on this forum need to have a firmer grasp on reality.

Israel is a rogue state being egged on by the US and UK who then pretend to be "brokering peace", just like they did when they illegally bombed Iraq using phoney Israeli "intelligence" about WMD that didnt' exist.

WE are all war criminals for condoning this filth. Israel should just p..s off back to their own borders and stop stealing the land and water of their neighbours.

As for the Iranian girl - in Australia she would have been locked in Woomera for years, called a liar and fraud and queue jumper, denied protection and send back to her death with $2,000 so stop whining like snivelling hypocrites.

Jackazoid,

No reasonable person has a problem with lobbying per se, but if, as is the case in the US, the Israel lobby has such a powerful hold on Congress that politicians fear for their political survival if they question Israeli behaviour, there's clearly something wrong.

"Whether rightly or wrongly, many Jews believe they are involved in an existential struggle..." A few comments: Zionists need to whip up paranoia and invent existential threats to keep their ideology of ethnic exclusivism and superiority alive. To the degree that "many Jews" (how many - who knows?) have been conned by Zionist propaganda into believing in an unbroken line of Hitlers (Nasser-Saddam-Arafat-Ahmedinijad- Nasrallah), they are, unfortunately, deluded, and it is unfortunate indeed that their collective delusion has such an influence on America's (and Australia's) foreign policy vis a vis the Middle East. For example, I personally believe that I am the reincarnation of the late King Zog of Albania, but would fall off my perch if the government were to base its relations with Albania on my belief.

"Jewish lobby"? You mean the Zionist or Israel lobby. It's to be hoped that most of us now can see through Zionism's attempt to equate itself with Judaism. Moreover, the Zionist lobby includes both Jews and non-Jews, neither group having a monopoly on delusion.

Strewth

Delusional?

Mate take a look at the IDF. It reported it had captured and pacified Bint Jubayl a week or so ago.

Mate today Israeli soldiers were killed in clashes with Hezbollah fighters in ... guess where? Yep Bint Jubayl.

If it weren't so serious it'd be funny.

Are the IDF propagandists emulating Basil Fawlty from Fawlty Towers?

So much for the effective Israeli occupation of Southern Lebonan. No bloody wonder they want the UN to outlaw Hezbollah and Lebanon resisting their illegal occupation.

Had an even bigger sneer at the Israeli ambassador to the US when interviewed by Neil Cavuto on Fox News. He criticised the killing of 15 Israeli's yesterday and glossed over the fact 12 of them were in THe bloody IDF. He tried equating that with the deaths of 56 Lebanese civilians.

Mate on and on the delusional propaganda goes...

It's about time the Israeli's faced the fact we don't believe their propaganda anymore.

Oh and Inshallah 2bob. The UN found the Israeli's deliberately targeted that building in Qana knowing there were no Hezbollah present. They also indicated the IDF were complicit in attempts to cover up their atrocity.

No bloody wonder you've shut up after all the claptrap you spouted about who was to blame for that atrocity.

All I see here is blogs accusing one side or the other of being the bad guys. After 60 years there is so much innocent blood on the hands of both sides, identifying the bad guys is a nonsense.

If you lot really 'cared' about the innocents being killed in the ME right now, rather than simply using them as 'ammo' for your debates, you'd let go of your rage and hatred and start trying to find practical solutions to achieve a real peace.

Peace can't be achieved by identifying the guilty, but only by negotiating a mutually acceptable compromise. Have none of you any thoughts what that might be? If none of you can even begin to contemplate a solution, what's the point of complaining about the killing when by your own silence you concede they have little alternative.