Welcome Brother in Christ ! (to the author)

But just like Paul and Barnabus, we don't always have to agree :)

Speaking also as an 'evangelical' Christian, I suggest that the Author showed more about his own eschatological branding than a solution to the problem.

One important point is this. No matter how we evangelicals may view the status of Israel in regard to the last days, the movers and shakers are in fact the Israelis themselves and it should be about how THEY see things.

I don't agree that the destruction of Jerusalem was the complete fulfillment of the 7 yr period etc, but that is something we can debate 'in house' :)

Of more importance is how Israel for a start and HAMAS moreso see things regarding the land, and what this implies for my brother's take on how to solve it.

Hamas Charter.

Article Eleven: The Strategy of Hamas: Palestine is an Islamic Waqf

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine has been an Islamic Waqf throughout the generations and until the Day of Resurrection, no one can renounce it or part of it, or abandon it or part of it. No Arab country nor the aggregate of all Arab countries, and no Arab King or President nor all of them in the aggregate, have that right, nor has that right any organization or the aggregate of all organizations, be they Palestinian or Arab, because Palestine is an Islamic Waqf throughout all generations and to the Day of Resurrection."

If ANYone can see a place for Israel there, please let me know. "This", (the above) is the source of the conflict today.
Pre 67 borders are totally irrellevant.

Inshallah 2bob

What's the latest on that enquiry into the murders in Qana?

Keith

ps you've been quiet.

fleurette

Naturally the word Jew does not appear in the Bible, it is an English word and the first part of the Bible is in ancient Hebrew.

The point is that there has been Palestinians moving out of their land and Jews moving out of Arab lands in roughly equal numbers. Should each group move back to where they came from or should we accept regrettable actions on both sides and go on with the partition?

It would be hard to guarantee the Jews reasonable conditions and freedom of religion if they returned so we do have a conflict. This is by no means the only world situation where this occurs. My ancestors' lives were bad in Russia but they were able to move to England and settle there, finally coming to Australia. Incidentally I have no intention either of living in Israel or returning to Russia, I am an Aussie through and through. In India and Pakistan, in Cyprus – human history is full of moves.

The sad, sad history of the Palestinians is that the surrounding countries refused to resettle them even though many were rich in oil revenue. They are a hard working, admirable people with a lovely culture and have been exploited by the fanatics who have been financed by despotic regimes who should have used the money to help them.

Regarding the parallel with South Africa I do not believe that it is appropriate. With apartheid the Africans were denied the same rights as the whites, forbidden to marry them, unable to vote in or sit in Parliament even required to sit on seats in the back of buses. None of this occurs in Israel where the Israeli Arabs have in fact the same rights as the Jews and some sit in Parliament. Of course they are a minority in what was once their own country but so are the Celts in the UK. They do have better rights and living standards than most other people in that area.

Keith, you wrote:

"What's the latest on that enquiry into the murders in Qana?"

What murders? according to the Webster dictionary, "murder" = "to kill (a human being) unlawfully and with premeditated malice".

The enquiry clearly showed that Israel was not aware of the presence of civilians in that building, but only of Hezbulla terrorists operating from the village and parking their launchers inside those buildings. This excludes the possibility of "premeditated malice". Also, there is nothing unlawful about self-defence and this building was used to launch rockets against Israeli civilans. On the other hand, murders were indeed committed in Qana - by the Hezbullah, unlawfully and with premeditated malice, launching missiles against Israeli civilans.

Fleurette and Logic:
the word "Jew" actually appears in the bible - Zecharia 8:23 and Esther 2:5 & 3:4.

Logic, I understand what you're saying. I don't have time to go into it now but there is solid proof that arab citizens in Israel are treated worse than the Israelis and many parallels with South Africa have been made in literature that I have read on the issue. You have to understand that in order to compare something it doesn't have to be exactly the same. The sort of racism in Israel is more insidious and veiled. It's not something newspapers are going to report to the rest of the world. You have to be an insider, someone has lived in both the Arab towns and the Jewish areas.

There's racism against the Jews too. Ethiopian Jews and even some of the Russian Jews are not treated favourably while the Americans and the British are treated the best. I'm no expert and I've never lived in the area but I've read many accounts of people who have (all those who have lived there and confirmed these thoughts were all Jewish zionists until they lived there)

I spoke to a Rabbi in Australia who told me that the conflict is not a religious one. It's mostly political. The prime focus has always been the ownership of the land and human rights. Instead it has turned into a religious conflict over time. An example is that this Rabbi says he can't walk down the street without being discriminated against. That's pretty widespread around the world.

But apart from that, these so called intellectuals who are claiming that religion is the source of all evil in the middle east, might want to get their facts straight before they make such sweeping generalisations.

Saudi Arabia is being led by stubborn headed royals who only care about their money. They are best buddies with the US. Do you really think if Saudi Arabia wanted to change its laws the US would let them? The US wants them to be an oppressive regime so it has more reason to stay and exert its influence and power over the region.

fleurette,

There has been and still exists a lot of injustices on both sides. Jews have had more than a good share of opression in their 3000+ years of history. The latestr being the east Jerusalem occupation by Jordan and the desecration of historical monuments, synagogues, burial grounds, etc..

Israeli treatement of Palestinians is sub-human. Denial of work, schooling, health, transport, free movement, etc...

I don't have time to go in more detail (have to go to Church) but one point were you say it is not a "religious" conflict...

two questions:

1. Why is there a mosque built on top of the most sacred Jewish site in Jerusalem : the temple mount? Jews cannot pray there anymore except outside the west wall.

2. What is the (real) source of Islamic Jewdophobia? When it clearly states in all Islamic books that Israel is the rightful owner of the land.