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The Forum > Article Comments > Israel and the land > Comments

Israel and the land : Comments

By Babu Ranganathan, published 3/8/2006

A biblical perspective: Zionism is fuelling the building and expansion of illegal Israeli settlements on Arab land.

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It's interesting to note that those who criticise Israel's belligerence also support its right to exist in peace. Critics of the Arabs, however, are united in the view that they have no rights at all.

Astonishingly, Arabs have become the new Jews: a race which can be blamed for anything and everything, with no evidence necessary. E.g. a rise in domestic interest rates is blamed on soaring petrol prices, which, we're told, are a result of Arabs kicking up a fuss and not swallowing a culture shift at gunpoint. How dare they?

This all-purpose scapegoat is a commodity money can't buy. Its value to politicians is obvious, but the grassroots support for anti-arabism comes from militant Christians who are fed up with turning the other cheek, and want to get back to some good old-fashioned hatin'.
Posted by Sancho, Sunday, 6 August 2006 4:55:53 PM
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You worry about Arabs being brought into disrepute without referring in any detail to the many arguments presented here and in other forums. More outrageously, you equate the minority of critics of Islam who happen to be Christian with those extremists who are tearing Islam apart by the use of violence. It is an irony that you see Arabs maligned and caricatured but are quite happy to do it to Christians!

If you baulk at the idea of any critique of Islam's practices, fine - there could be many reasons for your obstinacy which are none of my business, but if uncomfortable criticism is something you wish to avoid, don't bother posting in here Sancho. No one wants to hear your unsubstantiated whine.

If I'm wrong about your mendacity or culpable ignorance you'll be delighted to answer the questions below. This is not part of a Christian conspiracy I assure you.

1) What distinguishes "moderate" Islam from Qutb, al-Bana and other Islamists?
2) Can Islam be a religion of personal conscience with no aspirations for unity of Church and State?
3) If the answer to (2) is "no," why do Muslim immigrants to the West live in a country whose Constitution specifically forbids the establishment of a religion? Do they propose to throw out this Constitution?
4) If Muslims cannot in conscience support a Constitution forbidding Establishment, should they be excluded from official posts that require an oath to support the Constitution?
5) If the answer to (2) is "yes," do Muslims have the right to apostasy?
6) Should representatives of other religions have the right to proselytize in Muslim countries?
7) Will you personally take a public stand to support the right of Muslims to convert to other religions and for the right of other religions to proselytize Muslims?

Western democracy arose from a fight for freedom of religion and personal conscience. Do you believe that democracy can exist in the absence of freedom of religion?
Posted by Martin Ibn Warriq, Sunday, 6 August 2006 5:25:41 PM
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Logic I am starting to see more and more that your name is very apt in this case.

Martin I for one would like to hear Sancho’s views. It just occurred to me how true that is – that people can cry anti-Semitism at those who are anti-Israel (there’s a difference) yet they post such hatred against Muslims. Just because there is no real “term” for being anti-Muslim does not mean the implication isn’t made. Actually that might make some of you anti-Semitic seeing as Arabs are included in the Semitic description.

A language group in the Afro-Asiatic language family that includes Hebrew and Arabic. 2) description of Middle East peoples that trace their origin from the biblical Noah and his son Shem; these include Jews and Arabs.

My overarching opinion of the issue has been formed over many years and what I've come to realise is that there are so many aspects of the ongoing conflict to consider, rendering it almost impossible to attribute the entire conflict to a mere case of religious hatred – but that’s not going to stop the ignorant from taking the more simplistic view. It’s also a view the American media purports and exaggerates.

There is a fantastic documentary on the issue entitled “Peace, Propaganda and the Promised Land” with most of the commentary and interviews being that of educated Israelis and well respected American Jews like Noam Chomsky. They also interview Robert Fisk (great Journalist in the Middle East) and dedicate the entire thing to the legendary Edward Said (kudos to them!)
Warning: will challenge preconceived ideas and indoctrinated persons. Religion is aptly missing from the documentary ;)
The link for anyone who is interested: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7828123714384920696
Posted by fleurette, Sunday, 6 August 2006 11:51:58 PM
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Lebanon has refused to accept the ceasefire :

http://www.arutzsheva.org/news.php3?id=109337

Obviously they feel that there is no need for an immediate cessation of fighting, therefore there is no need for the continued International pressure on Israel to stop fighting?

For those who believe everything comming out of paliwood/hizboliwood please see this:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3286966,00.html

This is one of the photographers that was above being involved in faking photos from Kfar Qana, makes you think, hmmmmm.....

Got to go, I have an aliya interview today.

Inshallah

2bob
Posted by 2bob, Monday, 7 August 2006 9:03:12 AM
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For those of you with the thirst to understand what is happening, I heartily recomend this video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2967276362246845611&q

It is 1hr 18 min, but it is worth seeing.

Much of what is going on is explained in full.

Inshallah

2bob
Posted by 2bob, Monday, 7 August 2006 9:25:39 AM
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Dear Fleurette
would you mind quoting and showing us 'Hate for Muslims' that you refer to ? Are you confusing it with 'Hatred of Treason and Enemy behavior' ?

Are you sure you are not confusing "Exposing the evil of Islam" with 'hating muslims' ? to quote you "There is a difference you know".

Sancho did the EXACT thing he complains about for the Arabs, lumping all 'Christians' into one 'evil/extremist' basket, as Martin pointed out, so I hope Sancho is prepared for some robust personal criticism as well.

Sancho,

I hope you pay very careful and detailed attention to the questions Martin posed, as they are crucial for understanding the Islamic COMMUNITY self understanding. (Which might be quite different from the answers you would obtain when speaking on a personal level with individuals.)

From day ONE, Mohammed was busy building a 'STATE' ! Do you disagree with this ?

His STATE then went on to CONQUER other states, tribes and communities (not to mention some genocides on the way). Do you disagree with the 'conquer' point ? (see Hamas charter Article 11 and read it)

Now, we have members of that 'World Wide State' living in our midst, like white ants, community representaives seeking to influence our foreign policy, rebuking our government for not being 'even handed' with Israel and Hezbollah, seeking to overturn the Terrorist classification of Hezbollah, (Ameer Ali last week) in other words seeking to UNDERMINE OUR ALLIANCES and NATIONAL SECURITY.
The Islamic community might be friends with Hezbollah but the Australian government regards Israel as an ALLY.

Israel is an Ally of the USA, we have the formal ANZUS treaty with the USA, therefore to oppose our allies OR their allies is TREASON in my view.
This is how Mohamed regarded such actions of the Meccans under the Treaty of Hudabaya (read up on it). So, in the very least we should regard Muslims the same way.

Fleurette, is this 'hate' or the simple statement of factual observable behavior ?
Posted by BOAZ_David, Monday, 7 August 2006 9:35:11 AM
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