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The Forum > Article Comments > Israel and the land > Comments

Israel and the land : Comments

By Babu Ranganathan, published 3/8/2006

A biblical perspective: Zionism is fuelling the building and expansion of illegal Israeli settlements on Arab land.

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It is naive to the extreme to assume that simply returning to pre-1967 borders will stop the attacks on Israel.

Considering many of the neighbouring countries have categorically stated they want Israel wiped off the map, the notion of giving back land is the opposite of a solution.

Did withdrawal from Gaza stop anything? Did withdrawal from Lebanon? The answer is clearly no. All these withdrawal's did was give Israel's enemies more places to attack Israel from.

Forcing a return to pre-1967 boundaries essentially gives the Arab world a great encouragement. That is, that they are allowed to attack Israel and if they don't succeed, then they will not lose their land or sovereignty.
Posted by Alan Grey, Thursday, 3 August 2006 10:00:48 AM
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Could not agree more Alan. I can only accept the authors description of himself as an evangelical Christian although I believe he is naive. The author also ignores many other old and new testament passages while dismissing the book of Revelation as 'symbolic'. The book does not appear to have straight forward application like the bulk of Scripture but that should not lead believers to dismiss it as purely symbolic. Much of the book of Daniel is consistent with the book of Revelation.

Try telling infidels and unbelievers who have lost family members in many different parts of the world that if Israel was to return to pre 1967 borders that the militant Islam cause would then become happy chappy's. This is wishfull thinking at best.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 3 August 2006 11:38:11 AM
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The article contains many factual errors.

1. God promised His people (Israel) the land from the river Nile (Egypt) to the Euphrates river (today Iraq).

2. Palestine was a non-country until a few decades. Original Palestinians are non-Arabs.

3. This is a religious war that cannot be resolved by political or geographical means.

4. Peace for Israel is to simply be left alone and recognised as a legitimate country. To the Arabs peace means to eliminate Israel from what they consider their land.

5. The book of revelations was written around 95 AD well after the destruction of the temple.

6. The end time’s Biblical prophecies did not end in 70 AD. They are still being fulfilled today.

7. Jews are the original land owners and the only people who have spoken the same language, and followed the same religion for thousands of years.

8. Islam is not a biblical religion as much as they like it to be and often refer. It is a false religion originated in a different land with different people and motives.

9. The elimination of Israel - as wished by Islam - will not end their conflict with the West. It will only be one victory; a mere moral stepping stone to world domination.

10. The enemy of Islam is any one who does not recognise them as the only true religion and believe in their god Allah and his prophet Mohammad. That’s the entire non-Moslem worldwide populations.
Posted by coach, Thursday, 3 August 2006 11:39:52 AM
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‘However, the issue now is no longer so much about self-defence’, says the author.

The situation in the Middle East has always (as the author admits re land occupation) been and always will be about the defence of Israel or about the aggression of surrounding Arab states hostile to Israel, if you wish, and the curse of religion.

Forget the bible class and fundamentalist Christians in America. Neither of these has a jot to do with Israel defending itself from Islamic Arabs sworn to wipe Israel off the map. Most of us aren’t interested in, nor do we care about biblical ‘rights’ of occupation and ancient history. This is about hatred and killing in the 21st century. Religion is at the root of all conflict in the Middle East; and what biblical stories tell or do not tell is the very last thing in the world to be talking about in looking for ways of stopping the conflict.

There is probably little difference between a Muslim zealot and a Jewish zealot apart from the fact that Israeli zealots are under control; Muslims zealots are not. Hezbollah is being allowed to do as it pleases by the Lebanese government.

The author claims that: ‘Most Palestinians now will agree to Israel’s right to exist.’ But, is that true? Can a people that elect Hamas terrorists to government really accept Israel’s right to exist?

The author also claims that ‘most Palestinians if Israel simply gets out the West Bank’ will do the right thing. Again. How can he be sure of that? Not so long ago we witnessed Israeli against Israeli in the ejection of bull headed ‘settlers’ from Palestinian land only to see the Palestinians destroy buildings they could have used and continue with their hatred of Israel.

Babu Ranganathan’s article is interesting, but offers absolutely no confidence or comfort to people looking for a cessation of hostilities in the Middle East. In fact, the less said about religion, the Bible, Koran, Torah, etc., the better. Religion is the root of all evil in the Middle East.
Posted by Leigh, Thursday, 3 August 2006 12:19:37 PM
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A timely article Babu. And don't let the nit pickers get under your skin. That is just standard operating procedure of the zionistas to somehow imply that minor errors of dates etc render the whole argument invalid.

The real point in this debate is this whole issue of righting a 2000 year old wrong with another wrong. So if it is OK for Jews then why not the Celts? After all, we were raided for centuries by Vikings and were invaded and subjugated by a man of viking stock called William the Bastard whose family had taken over modern day Normandy in France.

This band of thugs took all the lands of England, by "right of conquest" is how it is described, and applied specific measures to dispossess and enslave the celtic farmers. These included laws that banned marriage of celtic women to celtic men and this forced young couples to leave their district so they could maintain the story that they had been married before the laws came into effect. But this forced migration severed the celts connection with their lands and enabled the Norman equivalent of Terra Nullis to prevail and thereby cede the lands to the Crown by default and subsequent redistribution to the invaders.

The point of this is that if a 2000 year old wrong can be used to justify the taking of land by force as the zionistas have done, then when can all the Celtic peoples of Australia, the US, Canada, NZ and the UK have UN sanction to invade Norway and Sweden, to extract compensation for the excesses of the Norman conquest and Viking invasions?
Posted by Perseus, Thursday, 3 August 2006 12:23:49 PM
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Babu Ranganathan your piece of fiction highlights many religious wrong doings, Religion is the result of mental activity, that was crude ,chaotic and confused, improperly thought out, created out of fancy, invented and assumed as true by a legal fiction.
You are right about the Zionists they are the root of all the hatred in the Middle East,were they not the terrorists fighting the British, Israel had refused time and time again to abide by the rules of the United Nations, those zionist who support the creation of a Israeli Empire in the Middle East also rely on fiction or the manufactured truth,
The creator of the Universe cant be the God invented by Solomon, because that God is quoted as having said, the promised land belongs to the Jews, that God must be a antichrist disguised as God, God the one that created all creatures great and small is not involved ' loving your your neighbour is what is important now when you go to Israel you find the only people talking about destroying religious centres are the Jews , they claim God [ the antichrist]has ordained them to be the leaders of the world, it is this mindset that creates all the hatred, only an antichrist would bless the weapons of war, only a antichrist would ask you to knock down a Mosque [community meeting place] to build a Temple [community meeting place ] it would seem Babu worships the same invented God,
Zabu has given all those religious zionist fanatics on this site a lot of rope lets see what they do with it, mangotree.
Posted by mangotreeone1, Thursday, 3 August 2006 12:58:04 PM
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