Scout, thanks for the link; fancy that! Shows how willing people accept myths and how much power the media has. I believe that most people can be made to believe anything.

Robert, thanks, don’t worry about the link and my name change; sounds like an entertaining book. I was wondering why you came into this topic though- is it because this book discusses abortion as well as child abuse?

OZGIRL, I have, in this discussion, said what my concerns and opinions about this pill were and that I was against the use of this pill just after reading the article.
Later, after taking part in the discussion, I said that I changed my opinion and came to a new conclusion; I accepted the pill although still preferring surgical abortion.
This change took place because I had more accurate information about it and because of discussing it with people who came with new facts, ideas and links about the pill. It wasn’t relevant to me whether the ideas, info and links came from men or women. Crap ideas go on the crap heap- good ideas I consider.

For example, about 40 people participated in this discussion so far! I figure that just over half are male. Most had new, interesting facts or links to add to the conversation that were relevant to the topic. That’s my point- conversations are richer, not poorer, when all interested people can take part, rather than banning about half of the population.
Saying that men should stick to male issues and females to female issues is a pre-sixties idea. We can all work together now, fortunately.

The bad old days (1965):

Found a young girl, who suited him nice
Went to his papa to ask his advice
His papa said son, I have to say no
That girl is your sister but your mama don't know
Wohohoho, it's real, shame and scandal in the family...
Went to his mama, and thought what he said
And told his mama, what his papa had said
His mama she laughed she says, go man go
Your daddy ain't your daddy, but your daddy don't know...

And now …

My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard,
And their like
It's better than yours,
Damn right it's better than yours,
I can teach you,
But I have to charge

I know you want it,
The thing that makes me,
What the guys go crazy for.
They lose their minds,
The way I wind,
I think its time

La la-la la la,
Warm it up.
Lala-lalala,
The boys are waiting

My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard,
And their like
It's better than yours,
Damn right it's better than yours,
I can teach you,
But I have to charge

I can see youre on it,
You want me to teach thee
Techniques that freaks these boys,
It can't be bought,
Just know, thieves get caught,
Watch if your smart,

La la-la la la,
Warm it up,
La la-la la la,
The boys are waiting,

My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard,
And their like
It's better than yours,
Damn right it's better than yours,
I can teach you,
But I have to charge

Oh, once you get involved,
Everyone will look this way-so,
You must maintain your charm,
Same time maintain your halo,
Just get the perfect blend,
Plus what you have within,
Then next his eyes are squint,
Then he's picked up your scent,

Lala-lalala,
Warm it up,
Lala-lalala,
The boys are waiting,

My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard,
And their like
It's better than yours,
Damn right it's better than yours,
I can teach you,
But I have to charge

Thanks for the question: what brought me here?

There two reasons: First, abortion is typically an option considered when pregnancy results from incest. Faith, Lacy Dawn's (the protagonist) best friend, was beaten to death by her father when she told him that she wanted one (the pregnancy comes out in the sequel that's not yet finished). He had to change underwear after the beating. I'm becoming a more complete writer by your contributions.

Secondly, my kids in group therapy sessions are vocally prolife, but often consider abortions in private sessions if pregnant or if they've gotten a girlfriend pregnant. After an abortion (14 and older without parental notification if a doctor signs a statement that it is in the child's best interests), they tend to express even more prolife views.

I expected to benefit from coming here and I have. Thank you. I want to consider as many perspective as possible on this highly charged issue. One of my jobs is to help the kids make rational decisions about their situations -- decisions which balance beliefs, feelings, and actions; and, with self-predicted consequences. Therefore, I'm also here for that purpose -- to become increasingly competent in my job.

Although I'm prochoice, I cannot let that view dictate my service to the kids or limit my role as a writer.

Robert Eggleto

Thanks Robert E. for explaining your reasons for being here. Your response emphasizes Celivia's point about the importance of men contributing to debate.

Alienating men from the discussion simply because pregnancy only happens to women is not going to solve anything. We already have enough gender apartheid - this lack of communication is what results in much unhappiness between the sexes.

There are those on OLO who rarely have anything positive to say about women, however, banning them from contributing to debate is not going to help them from moving on from their perceived injustices. Everyone has a right to an opinion, that is what OLO is about. We may not always agree, but there is always something to learn.

Regards to all.

To me Scout, its not about men not having anything valuable to contribute, but there are some males on here(seeker not one of them) that are out of their depth on the whole issue..

There is no room for a religous based arguement(tony abbot) nor indeed political, this is an issue of human rights(male and female and seeker does have valid concerns re paternity etc)and majority of men just cant relate...

I realise I have,nt backed up my comments with links etc, anyone can do a quick search, but does everything have to sound like a thesis?cant people just talk?

So of course I am not suggesting that men are not entitled to an opinion, but I think in this instance men should just take this as an opprtunity to learn, not to base wild inaccuracies based in religion or their own ignorance because they are'nt women.
None of us are experts after all...we Google and Google some more.

Celivia

" there should be a way out for men as well, ot by having a say in the woman’s decision to have an abortion but perhaps by discussing with the woman that he wants no responsibility at all for the child if she decides to have the baby. She can then decide if she wants to raise the child alone or have an abortion. If she decides to have the child then hthe man will have to sign away all his responsibilities as well as his rights, perhaps officially at a lawyer. Would that be possible, by law? I have no idea about that, just making a suggestion for the sake of the discussion."

Nicely said. The other factor is that the parents could agree at that point to the parental responsibilities if the child is carried to term - shared parenting (after age?) or other parenting options, maybe dad raising the child if mum is opposed to abortion but does not want to raise the child etc. There are a lot of posibilities. In the end of it the mother is the one who makes the choice about what is done with her body, in everything else both parents should have fair representation.

R0bert