Seeker, i accidentally 'edited ' my last post..I meant to say that men are not hapless victims in the paternity problem.If they feel they are it is a weak excuse.
As I said,if they were not so complacent,educated themseves,they would not find themselves victims.
And your quite right there are some compelling arguements for abortion..fetal alcohol syndrome etc..but not because men cant be accountable for their actions.It takes 2 to create a life.
And ,as for 'spare us' the rubbish about backyard abortions etc..some do forget(not you) why abortion was neccessary in the 1st place.

Lairymoo, sounds reasonable what Clinton said: it should be safe, legal and rare. Contraceptive is better than abortion!

Robert, I tried your link- can you check it, it didn’t work and I’d love to read it. Perhaps it’s temporary; I’ll try again tomorrow.
Aww, indeed very sad about the poor little kids with addicted mothers. I once knew a little girl with a heroine addicted mother, too- what a mess!

OZGIRL, My whole point was that welcoming men to debate this issue this is a good idea because women can take their opinion into regard in making the final decision. Men and women should work as a team rather than treating each other like the enemy.

You are defending imaginary statements. You’re saying this: “Now you say you guys want to manage our uterus?thats hilarious”
I have always maintained that women are ‘boss of own belly’.

OZGIRL, there are a lot of men out there who are nothing like the men you are describing and are concerned about women’s issues, too. I welcome their participation.

Above all, there are women that behave pretty disturbing as well. Danna Vale, for instance.

“If men were responsible for their own fertility,instead of leaving it in the hands of women who may exploit this, they have nothing to fear..paternity tests exist”.
Well said, we agree on this one then, since I suggested that men and women both are responsible for contraception. If a man wants to be 100% safe, there’s vasectomy.

The fact is, that there wasn’t much choice for men in contraception. Just the condom (and vasectomies that were not reversible). There were/are more options for women, like pill, IUD etc.
So in all fairness to men, they mostly had to rely on the female taking care of contraception, since the condom is certainly not 100% reliable.
But now they’re still researching this contraception pill for men- there’s hope that men too can have the chance to take more responsibility.

It’s all teamwork, OZGIRL- men and women working together, not putting each other down.

Spot on Celivia!

It takes two, while the final decision (to abort) is for the woman, men can and do offer support and take responsibility for their own fertility.

On the topic of paternity, the following is an informative and fact based article at:

http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/s1646546.htm

There is a lot of misinformation and exaggeration about paternity fraud - those who are interested in learning more should check out the above link.

The only men who should be involved in the decision are the partners of the woman considering her options, that is husbands and boyfriends in steady relationships.
I still dont think that the male community as a whole should presume that the majority of women welcome their input simply because men cannot empathise with their position .The complexity of emotions experienced by a pregnant woman/girls in this matter are way beyond the comprehension of most men, that is why men are only too happy to leave it to women the majority of the time ,men dont feel comfortable with handling deep emotional issues...some perhaps but my experience has shown most do not.
If they cant relate on that level..how can they understand the issue from a womans perspective?and it is from her perspective that they have a problem as far as I see on this forum.

Sorry I dont have a link to refer you too to support my arguement everyone, but I think my opinion could stand on its own.
Links dont make one an expert on every topic..life experience should account for something.

OZGIRL,

Sorry about my typo. The essay is at: www.wingspanquarterly.com
I left the "ly" off before.

The novel is at: www.fatcatpress.com.

Thanks for asking.

Well chosen article from Scout. The title says it all – it immediately sets out to discredit claims the practice is rampant. Just like we don’t know the abortion rate or how much, is just right. A percentage of abortions result from uncertainty of paternity, but many survive to “misattributed paternity” (hence my argument for more abortions, not less).

Scout and others may prefer not to know, just like many of the victims of paternity fraud. Yes, many of its victims are unaware and only a small proportion of population test for it. Laws that restrict the use of paternity tests can cause paternity testing statistics to underestimate the rates of non-paternity.

“It is quite possible, and should certainly be investigated, that in intact families where the man is suspicious enough to have a motherless paternity test, the rate of misattributed paternity really is the 10% or so revealed by these results, at least in Australia.” http://www.childsupportanalysis.co.uk/analysis_and_opinion/choices_and_behaviours/aabb.htm

Why not also try http://www.australianpaternityfraud.org/ while you’re at it. Here you will find some judgments such as “Fact that mother had, whether consciously or inadvertently, deceived husband into believing that children born into marriage were his biological offspring is irrelevant - What matters is bonding relationship that existed at time that family was functioning as unit where husband had treated children as his own rather than whose DNA is lodged in children's genes”.

But if you don’t feel like spending too much time on the subject, at least read “Mommy's little secret” at http://www.australianpaternityfraud.org/news/Globe_and_Mail_Mommys_Little_Secret.htm

And also from the same web site:
‘A British survey conducted between 1988 and 1996 by Robin Baker, a former professor at the University of Manchester, confirmed the 10-per-cent figure. That seems high to skeptics such as Dalhousie University geneticist Paul Neumann, although even he admitted that "my colleague, who's a woman, tells me women have no trouble believing it. . . . It's the men who can't."’