Carl,

Sorry to tell you this but despite the romanticized history to the contrary, the US founding fathers actually did not intend a Government elected by the people.

They wanted their Government to be directly appointed by the wealthy and influential members of society.

For various reasons, this model could not be implemented and eventually everybody (including women) won the right to vote.

Likewise, Australia was federalised mainly to keep out Chinese immigrants, although this aspect has been modified and forgotten over the years.

History is replete with constant revisionism.

I do agree wholeheartedly with your observation that we are ruled by fear.

It goes beyond Government as well. Watch any tabloid "current affairs" programme and you will see what the next everyday thing to fear is. (Fast Food, escalators, microwave ovens, medications...)

When Fear doesn't work, Greed and Ignorance are fighting for second place.

In all cases they use our own self-interest and prejudices to control us.

I suspect that some of it even spills over into Forums like this from time to time.

You have hit on a tough one, Nanum. But you should be commended for your point of view, especially as the over-eager Israelis are following the Old Testament rule of any means to an end, rather than more the Sermon on the Mount perspective of love your enemy, which actually means place yourself in the position of your enemy to find out whether your hatred is justified.

Certainly any means to an end is glaringly seen in bombing apartment buildings where Hizbollah might be only using one floor, etc, the total destruction of an airport which could have been used to get holiday makers out quickly especially as Lebanon was relying so much on tourism as the main means of national income.

Certainly the Jews as a people have been immorally persecuted over the centuries more than any race under the sun. Further, we must admit that Jewish intellectual skill, even though mixed with an obvious shrewdness, has always worried leaders of countries not only concerning business, but also many Jews are skilled in activism, as Karl Marx, a born Jew, was also typical. Henry Kissinger is also an example, as certainly are the many neo-cons who now frequent the White House, gaining appointments like Paul Wolfowitz, who is now head of the World Bank.

Yet again, it must be admitted that if a race of people has exceptional skill regarding the human thought process, we must not condemn them for it, as we do not condemn, without mentioning names, Jewish persons who have only recently become billionaires here in Australia.

But as Jewish persons are also mentally equipped with a certain romanticism coupled with a special friendliness, they should worry that their means to an end tactics in Lebanon might split Jewish opinions, even as regards the pestering by Hizbollah, which compared to the martial sting that Israel has along with American backing, Hizbollah will never get much beyond heavy pestering unless Iran comes into the picture, maybe with borrowed atomic warheads from North Korea, or even from Russia or China

Bigmal,

I take your point, I object wholeheartedly to the Iranian rhetoric also, it does their image and the image of Muslims a lot of harm (although I believe that the comment about wiping Israel off the map has been distorted and exagerated and I do beleive Iran is within its rights to feel bullied and threatened)

But I must disagree about our domestic issues being second to the issue of terrorism. I think they are related. What right do we have to lecture other countries on democracy and liberty when they are clearly being eroded here? How are we going to rid the world of ammoral fundamentalist groups like Hezbollah when we are on our own ammoral military quest for resources in the middle east?

Its called leading by example, and while it may seem like airy-fairy, unrealistic tripe I beleive it is our best hope of long term peace.

Bushbred Part Two

We could go on here about the balance of power philosophy, strongly pursued by the US and the Soviets during the Cold War, and which no doubt did prevent either side having a big city virtually destroyed by just one nuclear missile, especially with fallout. Vladimir Putin should know all about it. An Iran with martial nuclear capacity, secretly arranged from both sides, might be just the thing to quieten down Israel’s atomic enterprising, as well as making Iranian leaders realise how a couple of nuclear rockets from both sides, could possibly pollute the whole Middle East.

Finally in regard to the whole Middle East problem, a contributour to the Letter Page in our West Australian points out how Islamic nations never complain about how Western nations run their own affairs but Islamists do rightfully complain about Western nations talking about bringing in democracy, when ever since WW1 from the West it’s been mostly graft and grab.

However can Middle East peoples trust us for their future, especially when Israel is backed so much by America, virtually having a US license to extend her Promised Land

WAR on TERROR

or..

WAR on ENEMIES ?

It is rediculous to declare a 'war on terror' suggesting that 'we' have some inherant moral high ground, and 'they' do not.

Its all a matter of perspective. One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist. Just depends on what your passport says.

Dig deep enough and you will find morally repugnant aspects to ALL our histories. Dig a bit more close to home and we might find some unpalatable truths about ourselves on an individual basis.

So, this leads to.....'what is in our interests'. Of course, if we can seek to maintain moral high ground in the persuit of our legitimate interests, this is a good thing.

But again, an Israeli's "Forced acquisition of Strategically crucial territory" (e.g. Golan Heights) is a Syrians "greedy land grab".
Given the fact that the Syrians used the Golan Heights to shell Israel, it gives some justification to the acquisition of the territory by Israel.

Israel must re-shape the middle east to rid itself of the perenial squabbles and random rocket attacks, suicide bombers etc.

It must also re-shape the area for the long term benefit of the displaced Palestinians. (send them to Southern Lebanon as per my 'Final Solution')

Palestinians are descendants of Arab invaders. No moral high ground there.

WAR CRIMES ?

Attacking 'non combatant civilians' such as the emotive pictures linked to us by Keith, and today news 'analysts' suggesting this might be a War Crime... well, I also saw an interview with a fleeing Shia/Hizbollah family, a mother saying "I'm not escaping, I'm moving and will send my children back to fight Israel".....

"Innocent" civilians ? "Innocent" women and children ?

Blown up by a child or blown up by an adult....You are still dead.

Children who will be moulded into suicide bombers are legitimate targets and their PARENTS are responsible for their deaths !

It is interesting that with all the rhetoric from our leaders like Howard and Bush, they refuse to be responsible in protecting our own citizens.

The European nations evacuated their citizens quick-smart. So did every other responsible country on earth. They actually care about their citizens. Howard couldn't care less about Australian citizens in other countries. Howard lets our citizens on Australian Passports down: time and time again. Howard just wants trade trade trade.

What do we hear from Howard and Bush? Dribble, dribble, dribble! Australia abandoned our own citizens in Lebannon for too long, just like Bush abandoned the People of New Orleans after Hurrican Katrina. Did they evacuate fast? NO! Dribble, dribble, dribble, and people were left to starve to death. War in Iraq is more important than our own citizens.

We have been betrayed by our own leaders. I take no position on Israel or Lebannon. Our interest is to look after Australia. Sticking our nose into their business leads to more abandoned people, less cooperation from Europe since Australia is so "on-the-nose" internationally with the US. Of course we are the last ones on the wharf waiting while bombs surround the families.

We are now at danger of terrorism, not because Islamics hate Australia, but because Australia stuck its nose into something that is none of our business. Not only that, but our Government jumps up and down drawing attention to us, trying to convince terrorists that Australia is somehow important in world security. Our land is then on the hit list, just as Howard wanted.

I summise: get Australians out of Lebannon fast! Get our troops out of Iraq fast! Get out of this stupid coalition with the US. It is time to think of Australia first. No matter what side you are on, you must be on Australia's side. Let us think for our own citizens rather than for the interests of the US and Israel. They can look after themselves. They should let us look after our own people.

It is wise to stay out and get on with running our own country.