Put simply and in the context of Rancitas’ post one could see that Ranc was saying that supposed Christians, like Boaz, who condone Israel’s violence against the “flesh and blood”, which means people like the ordinary people of Lebanon who Israel is attackng, are hypocrites because using that passage as a guide in relation to Israel’s attack on a democratic state like Lebanon one could come to only one honest conclusion., in my opinion, and that is that an honest Christian country that Australia claims to be can only condemn the” rulers of darkness” who bomb the Christ out of civilians or “flesh and blood”. The Bible is telling us not to kill women, children, non-combatants but look to the rulers and powers who perpetrate all the killing for solutions.

2/ Eph 6.12 Reprove the unfruitful works of Darkness..EXACTLY :)

It is very clear that for Rancitas and anyone with heart that war and preparing for war is darkness. It is terrorism. Apparently for Boaz it is light. That human life of innocent folk is more important than Israel’s quest to get Hizbollah, more important than anything, the value of all life is something that must be engendered into the psychology of people and we must make world rulers bend to our “warm and fuzzy” ways. How? people need to stop participating. Just stop. Yes it is warm and fuzzy and killing, and big-cool-looking-fighter jets, and uniforms are so hardcore and macho to the warmongers. Your attitude Boaz is part of the problem.

Boaz complains:

But if "I" had made such biblical references, I would be condemned as a 'bible basher' :)"
You are seen as a bona-fide Bible basher partly because of your hypocrisy. You are always attacking other religion with your version of the Bible. Your manipulation of the text is far removed from the true message. The Bible cannot be used to condone warfare; unless you are prepared to admit that it is no different to the other texts that you are always misrepresenting.

David,

You are firm in your convictions, I’ll give you that. I appreciate your posts also, even though your views on religion represent most of what I stand against, but that’s why I like this forum, because preaching to the converted is just not fun (i.e Michael Moore).

My challenge to you David is, if you are into rationality and scrutiny, I think you should take a hard look at the most defining event of our age, 9/11. I think you should look very closely at the official story, and ask yourself, will this story stand up to historical scrutiny?

Will the 911 commission stand up to historical scrutiny David? When considering it took over a year to establish, it was stacked with Republicans, it didn't interview the President or the VP in public, and it completely ignored some very strange occurrences, such as WTC7 being professionally demolished seven hours later, even though any engineer will tell you that professional demolitions take months to plan.

This issue isn’t going away, I mention it now because I have noticed it is becoming a very big issue in the US, and I think we should all start thinking about what the implications may be if it really hits the fan. So use that rational brain of yours David and do a bit of research, I have, and I didn’t really like what I found. (Just stay away from any websites that mention the ‘Illuminati’, those guys are wack jobs).

turnright turnleft

The Nazis were the enermy and the world didnt act to stop Hitler.

There is a connection still between them and the eztream arabs.

You should know most even moderate muslims actually really beleive they are on higher ground.

There aim is as it always was and that is to wipe out the western world.

Blind freddy can see that the way the UN sat back and did nothing they have spead like a disease through the world taking over.

Did anybody see the guy who wrote that burkas in Australia was just another form of Ausies.
Bull
Our women do not cover their faces for men.

Howard had better act NOW to Ban burkas along with a few more laws.

Plenty of people want to come here lets take some others.[or none]
We have no water

Alan, I believe the observable world evidence supports the effect monotheism has on indigenous cultures. Name one culture, surviving monotheistic invasion of their lands, in the past or currently.

I'm not saying Jews were responsible for communist deaths, just they're accountable as well, for their complicity. As are the catholic's and orthodoxies with the nazi.

We're never right, change is always upon us. We may get to where we understand and can make informed judgements on available evidence, but never can we be right, just learning.

“Is that right? Obviously your statement is self-refuting nonsense. If you aren't right, why should I or anyone else bother to listen to you or change our ideas based on what you say? “

A typical psychopathic statement, demanding that you must be right to have an opinion and any value. What you fail to be able to see, is if your right, there's no other options, so you fail to learn or see difference and change.

So you become more psychopathic trying to force your being right onto others, resulting in despotic expression. Monotheism, which according to you lot, is always right is a classical exhibition of despotic psychopathy. Sensible people exchange views, learning from others as they go.

“No. You think you are right, you are just being intellectually dishonest. Otherwise, why do you argue with others? You obviously think you are right in thinking they are wrong to think they are right.”

This shows how paranoid you are in your desperation to be right, I put forward opinions, to learn and test peoples veracity as they do mine. With the followers of god, its great fun because they have nothing to base their righteousness on, except psychopathic delusional outbursts. As true psychopaths, you all deny your history even when its repeating itself in front of your face in the ME, excellent rational. Who needs any more evidence other than your example.

@Carl
Hi mate..yep..I’ve looked at the 9/11 stuff, and have no real problems with the accepted version of what happened. But, if there was enough evidence to show to the contrary, trust me, it would stick. My old mates the Illuminati ? :) aaah yes...Adam Weishaupt, Rothschilds and company.. been there, read about that, like most things, a bit of truth and a lot of speculation.

@RANCITAS.

We are actually on the same_wavelength, but the tuner is just a tad off frequency and we are getting interference :) you know..that donald duck sound.

We (referring to Christians) should expose the works of darkness..yes. A righteous war can have ‘dark’ moments (e.g. Rape and murder of Iraqi woman and children by Marines) so yes, we DO condemn that.

When it says ‘we’ fight not against....etc it means that in the spiritual realm there are combatants, and behind many earlthy figures -powers of darkness influence them. I feel many of the Mullahs like Masrallah and Khomeini are driven by demonic influences. (Just look at Khomeini’s face and his writings) So, I rant against them, exposing their darkness of seeking to destroy Israel.
Ranc, u must distinguish between 'Christian' action and Secular. War is secular.

Israel is driven by the desire to survive. and are now doing what needs to be done to avoid a much BIGGER crisis in future. Do you doubt this ?

All war is darkness ? Lets test that.

Romans 13

2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.

Now clearly, it is a judgment call as to who is doing ‘wrong’ and who is doing ‘right’.

PS did anyone notice that the Muslim Speaker of Lebanons Parliament ‘wiped’ his hand after shaking the hand of Condy Rice ? that ‘black’ person. Disgustingly racist.

Wendy:

You say the world didn't act to stop hitler - I'd argue they did, though it was much too late, and it was more due to concern over their expansion than it was the holocaust.

I'd agree that far too many countries were complacent in the case of the holocaust - Many polish for instance, enthusiastically participated.

I still don't quite see your connection between them and the extreme arabs - in my previous post I said that the terrorist label was a useful way of dehumanising the enemy, and that this was a necessary exercise in any war in order to induce your soldiers to fight... is this the connection you're highlighting? Or is it that Nazis and moderate muslims both want to wipe out the western world?

That's not quite right... the nazis didn't want to destroy the western way of life, in fact their aryan dystopia was a product of exaggerated western ideals.

Muslim extremists do want to get rid of the jews, and I'd argue a large proportion of muslim moderates aren't fond of them either, but that's largely due to a long standing conflict.

I would strongly disagree that most muslim moderates want to wipe out western society. Go and talk to some. They're not going to bite.

And as for 'howard better ban the burka...'... No.

Nope, sorry. Banning it is exactly the same as forcing people to wear it. Both are wrong. May as well ban rosaries while you're at it.