Boaz you don’t get it. For Rancitas, the preparation for war and warmongering talk only leads to war/terrorism which is “Darkness”. The “flesh and blood” of this world are infinitely more important than the goals of rulers, the pettiness of bellicose spindoctors or the idiocy of war.

In the latest events in Israel the attacks are on Lebanese homes and civilians to get at Hezbollah. Complete disregard for the “flesh and blood”. This is terrorism which has already led to darkness for those involved. More non-combatants are being killed than soldiers and that is because the rulers of Israel are using force and methods that are just plain cruel and inhumane. It is terrorism.

Boaz it is not valid, nor fair, to compare WW11 with the current situation in Lebanon. The current bombing is in response to Hezbollah taking two Israel soldiers prisoner – much like the USA has imprisoned David Hicks.

Nazi Germany were in the process of murdering six million Jews, unionists, communists, dissidents, homosexuals etc - not to mention blatantly invading most of Europe. Germany expanded its borders because Hitler believed that the Aryan Germans had a right to space that outweighed the rights of others currently occupying that territory (sound familiar). Hence the French resistance could be compared to Hezbollah – if, BD, you insist on your comparison.

BD. Britain handed over land that it had annexed from Palestine to Israel. Soon after settlement Israel started expanding its borders. Every decade since then there has been a war.

Once Israel had established itself it encouraged the repatriation of millions of Jews from around the world - a lot came from the USA. USA citizens have dual citizenship. This influx of people and money from outside Israel puts pressure on Israel to keep expanding its territory. Thus Israel has dishonoured the original intent of the handover of Arab land. Israel’s expansionism is also based on a three-thousand year –old text where God supposedly outlined the “chosen people’s” land.

So, Boaz, in a sense Israel’s resettlement is opposite to your callously-named “final-solution” proposal.

Jewish people have, understandably, over-reacted to the holocaust. In a strange irony they have taken up the attitudes of their oppressors. – a kind of Stockholm syndrome response.

One criticism of Jews was that they let the holocaust happen to them. Their response was very passive. This is because there was no government, no authority, no army to turn to as they were a people without a home - state.

The unimaginable cruelty they endured left a vacuum in their hearts and a conviction “never again”.

So with nationhood, a central government, and annexed land granted to them mostly because of their war experience, Israel now has 168,000 troop, 408,000 reservist, 3630 tasks, 470 warplanes, 15 warships, three submarines, 200 nuclear warheads and Patriot missiles. And of course, with its old -money power and influence it has a lot of influence over the US corporations and government.

But it has forgotten how to empathise with others. The vacuum in their hearts has been filled with the same attitudes and behaviours of the Nazi’s that nearly destroyed the Jewish people in the first place and dragged Germany into darkness.

Israel knows it is using terrorism. It is a method given “legitimacy “by the USA when it invaded Iraq on a flawed pretext. This invasion undermined the authority of national sovereignty. It turned the idea of “fighting in defence only” to that of “pre-emptive strike as defence” which in turn has led to Israel’s callous bombing of infrastructure, homes and people as “defence.” This is ends-justifies- the -means thinking undermines the authority of your and Judaism's Biblical Law and, from this pagan’s corner, ultimately undermines the immeasurable value of “flesh and blood”. This is wrong and must stop.

I agree wholeheartedly rancitas, and yes, it needs to stop. But how?

Heading back to the topic of the article, Ayliffe requests practical solutions.

Whilst I tend to disagree with Boaz's extreme arguments, he has put forward a solution of sorts. It may not be ideal, it may not even be practical, but it is something.

We need to face up to two important facts.

1. Neither the arabs nor the jews are just going to capitulate and extend an olive branch on any kind of permanent basis.

2. As long as these peoples are living together in an area so religously charged, there is going to be violence.

There is no pleasant solution to this. Both sides gave up any real claim to the moral high ground many years ago.

I would argue they both now need to be treated on an equal footing. Doesn't matter who bombed who. The fact is, both sides have. You can point to as many nasty deeds by either side as you want, but it won't change things.

The establishment of the jewish state was a mistake, caused by guilt from the holocaust.
The jews needed a country, but that was not the place to put them. They may have wanted it for religious reasons, but religious reasons were also going to feed conflict.

I don't have a solution, and while I may not necessarily agree Boaz's is ideal, I'm not seeing anyone else actually suggest some.

I love the irony - all this talk about Nazis.
In reality, who funded Hitler’s rise to power?
The IG Farben Company.
Who loaned money to IG Farben to make the financing of Hitler possible?
Primarily, the JP Morgan Group.
Who was behind JP Morgan?
A Jewish gentleman named Rothschild.
What else did JP Morgan have interests in?
The Bendix Corporation and Opel.
Who gave secret avionic intelligence to the Nazis?
The Bendix Corporation.
Who manufactured German tanks?
Opel.
Who else maintained financial interests with the Nazis throughout the War?
Another Jew named Rockefeller.
The West continued to channel money to the Nazis during the war and made sure it’s own industrial interests did not suffer much damage during bombing raids in Germany.
Westerners remained on the board of IG Farben but walked away without charge after the War.

What country changed its name to appease the Nazis in the hope they would free them from Western financial oppression and exploitation?
Persia - it became Iran (Aryan).
And on an on it goes.

Much of this dispute is also a facade. Nobody mentions Israel’s critical water situation and the important part that the Gaza area plays in it as well as the effect it has on the Palestinians. The Israelis will soon be pumping much of their water from Turkey if this incident doesn’t pay off the way they expect.

Watch what the magician is doing with his other hand from time-to-time.

TURNRIGHT....
I appreciate your 'almost' support :) at least for the fundamental principle of them not being able to live together for a multitude of reasons.
I believe my approach (which does not involve genocide) is the most compassionate one. The only thing standing between peaceful re-location and compensation of Palestinians to other lands is PRIDE.

@RANCITAS
In regard to the "Israel is attacking 'civilian' targets to get at Hezbollah"
I have YET to see an 'innocent civilian' interviewed on TV who said "Hezbollah is bad, we don't want them, they don't represent us"
On the contrary, I have seen even 'innocent' children pulling out the 'Hezbollah' flags from their stuff while in transit to Syria.
I'm very sorry but.... Hezbollah IS the population and as long as they support the build up of OFFENSIVE long range missiles, with increasingly lethal war heads, including the STRONG possibility of Chemical/biological (from Iraq or Iran via Syria) and as long as Hezbollah maintains 'Islamic Caliphate' in the whole area, meaning the destruction of Israel, then, I'm afraid 'innocence' is not something I would ascribe to the population as a whole (shia/hezbollah)

@ RACHE
well done ! :) you are explaining to us the way the world works. You are describing human nature. You are giving us the keys to pretty much every war and conflict since Cain whacked Abel.
Have a read of Lebanon's history, and see who supported who, (outside countries) and what happened as a result, and if you can find a 'good guy' in all of that, I'll send you a cheque for a million :) (If I had it)

Yet we, from the security of our stolen aboriginal land (The family 1km from me is just 3 generations removed from their great grandparents who were the first to move in and settle..... aboriginals ? where ? Fitzroy I think)
From our wealth and abundance which is also based on that of the British Empire, which is based on the profits of the Opium trade and the exploitation of India and its labor force etc etc etc........

Further to my earlier comment about truth during (and after War),here's another slant on the kidnapped Israeli soldiers, who did what to whom and where it actually happened.

http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/editorials/signs20060724_TheHistoryOfWarIsTheHistoryOfLies.php

For all you conspiratists out there, prior to the 911 attack there were only 7 nations in the world that did not have a Rothschild controlled Central Bank.

Less than a month after Afghanistan was invaded, there were only 6.

After Iraq was invaded, the number suddenly reduced to 5.

The only ones left now are Iran, North Korea, Sudan, Cuba and Libya.

I haven't even mentioned the significant links to "Big Oil".

Now tell me all this is only about making the world a better place by the spread of democracy through the Middle East, considering Lebanon and Palestine both have democratically elected Governments.

Hitler and Goebbles were right when they said people will believe a big lie more easily than several small lies.