Philo,

More than happy to explain that for you.

I see the increasing militarism and lack of respect for democratic values on which our nation was founded as the real threat to our way of life. Governments in the west are increasingly seeing civil liberties as nothing more than obstacle to their military goals. This is a threat to our way of life.

The government here, and especially in the US have drastically undermined the integrity of our electoral systems, allowing larger corporate donations, and is the US, dodgy as voting machines. This is a threat to our way of life.

Our federal Government has just announced new media laws that will allow greater consolidation for large corporate media outlets, thus limiting the flow of information to citizens. This is a threat to our way of life.

And finally, our govt. is increasingly ruling the population through fear. We live in one of the wealthiest, safest, and most prosperous nations on earth, we are the envy of billions of people all over the world, yet we are constantly told that we are under threat, that we have something to fear, something called terrorism, even though far more people die driving to work than they do from terrorism. Governance by fear is a threat to our way of life.

And the founding fathers of the US and Australia would agree with me.

Carl

So would some of the fathers of today!

Nahum, its irrelevant which god, they all have the same expression from their followers. When people fight to the death supporting what they can't see, feel or know, other than through death, is it any wonder violence and death are a very visible and prominent part of their expression towards others.

Sadly, both sides have god on their side, like all monotheists they have to violently prove their god is with them. As their gods do nothing to change this approach, it surely must support it, considering the amount of power attributed to it by its followers and the lengths they go to suppress any opposition, even non violent intellectual opposition, how can we beleive otherwise.

As love is the implied expression of god, yet violence is the actual expression, where is the veracity in what's implied.

Your statement, “For there to be peace, something must be willingly sacrificed by one side.”

That's only true for those locked in fantasy. The only sacrifice needed for peace, is acceptance of other non destructive and non controlling ethics and values. Acceptance is peace, sacrifice is submission.

The brain-dead have no other answer than destroy the dispossessed of the middle east, disrupting many countries. As Israel was established by a war against the local populace and is financially supported by all Jewish enclaves throughout the world, it would be simpler to move the jews to other countries and allow the middle east to return to some semblance of sanity.

Alan Grey, hiding behind lies is typical of monotheistic veracity, place before the world verifiable facts, regarding monotheisms positive contribution to the world. The verifiable evidence shows monotheism has destroyed more of the worlds people and cultures than anything else, or remain unbelievable as does your god.

Two thousand years of constant cultural genocide and war throughout every place monotheism invades, is surely more significant that 50 years of localised communism, supported by local monotheists.

Carl points out eminently how suppressive the followers of god are, forcing us to sacrifice our freedoms to give them more control over our lives, typical monotheists..

Perhaps I'm being trite here, but what the hell...

Gods don't kill people. People do..

What you say is correct Alchemist, but my point is that it's a gross misrepresentation of God that people use when backing up their violent idealism. And it's an abrogation of personal moral responsibility. I'm doing this in God's name. To do it in my own name would be unthinkably immoral.

So God is misappropriated, time and time again. But there is a greater and far more moral mythicism which God is. And it's an existential conundrum. For our lives to have any meaning, there must be a point at which our narrative exists as part of a bigger story.

If there is no underlying mythic God of love, justice, equality and peace, then is there any point to non-violence? It's dog eat dog, rat eat rat, as Mark Knopfler once wrote.

As humans, our spirits are lifted by the hope we find in God. Think of the great and mythic speeches; "All men (and women) are created equal", stories of passive resistance like those of Ghandi, Oscar Romero, Martin Luther King. These are the stories of God for me. This inspires me to a greater personal responsibility, and a moral mindfulness.

To advocate that God is responsible by inaction is a little unfair. We are all guilty by our inaction. To point the finger at a particular religious group because of their hypocrisy is to forget our own hypocrisy. Our very existence in the west is a manifestation of hypocrisy at the expense of the poor in the world.

There is much good that has been done in the name of God, as well as some misappropriation, Alchemist. To focus only on the one is possibly a little unfair on God.

Alchemist, the only one lying here is you. It is a verifiable fact that Atheistic societies were responsible for somewhere around 200 million deaths in the 20th century. 100 years. Religious civilisations may have been around for thousands of years, but even in all that time, they have barely touched the murder count of atheism in 20 times the duration.

RJ Rummel's decades of research has plenty of data to make this clear. Check out the table http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.TAB16A.1.GIF (look at the bottom) or even
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM
There are ample resources if you want to bother with knowing the truth instead of regurgitating the pitiful anti-religous bigotry that you errornously seem to think is remotely related to reality.

Perhaps you should also check out the black book of communism.

The numbers don't like Alchemist. You do.

Stop with the lies and embrace reality.

Carl,

Your points are not unreasonable, and to a some extent I agree with them. However.

The issue of Terrorism was more in the context of the current war going on between the Israelis and Hezbollah. Hezbollah is a listed terrorist organisation, that is supported by both Syria and Iran, neither of which are known for the enlightened approach to world affairs.

Iran in particular has repeatedly said that it wants to wipe Israel off the face of the map. Rest assurred if they win that round, it won't be long before we are in their sights precisely because that is their religious belief.There will be no peace until the whole world is part of their Ummah, and it doesnt matter if it is Shia or Sunni, they both are persuing the same end.

In terms of constancy of threat, I rate terrorism Islam and its underlying moronic religious platform a far greater threat to western society, than some internal difficulties with way democracy is being distorted by coteries of various elites. At least we can do something about the latter, but Islamicism as yet another totalarian system, is another matter.

I am not brain washed at all, just a realist who has bothered to do my homework,and been involved up close with the Islamic ways.