Leo, I think you need to add less acid to your Kool-Aid (or possibly more).

BOAZ_David, you might think that the Iraqi "war of liberation itself is not [regrettable]. (humanly speaking)", but don't expect me to agree with you. You're welcome to your opinion, just don't state it as a fact.

Australia was led into this war on false pretences and we're now mired in a conflict which shows no sign of a happy ending. I don't believe the world is a safer place because of this war and no amount of propaganda will change that.

Right Mr bible basher. We should shut up and let the government torture and torment people in their rotten immigration prisons?

Get stuffed. Actually refugees have the right to come to Australia without our permission first and claim protection under the refugee convention. We don't make people refugees they are refugees when they are forced outside of their countries and have to keep moving.

Go and read the reality some time and stop passing yourself off as a good christian boy if you want to support illegal invasions, rape and murder of civilians, the use of napalm, cluster bombs, daisy cutters, depleted uranium and other atrocities on innocent people.

Then support locking up those who escaped Saddam while the AWB was paying him to stay alive.

Give me some rational responses and not this drivel.

The invasion was illegal and is an absolute disaster for people who did us no harm, not ever.

You think we look pretty good together. You think my shoes are made of leather. But I'm a substitute for another guy. I look pretty tall but my heels are high. The simple things you see are all complicated. I look pretty young, but I'm just back-dated, yeah. Indeed.

I was born with a plastic spoon in my mouth. The north side of my town faced east, and the east was facing south. And now you dare to look me in the eye. Those crocodile tears are what you cry. It's a genuine problem, you won't try. To work it out at all you just pass it by, pass it by.

Substitute me for him. Substitute my coke for gin. Substitute you for my mum. At least I'll get my washing done.

How many miles must we march?

By order of the prophet, we ban that boogie sound. You just degenerate the faithful with that crazy casbah sound.

The king called up his jet fighters. He said you better earn your pay. Drop your bombs between the minarets - down the casbah way.

Pervez Musharraf don't like it. Rockin' the casbah. He thinks it's not kosher. And you know? He really, really hates it.

Your life is like a schedule ...

Marilyn

BOAZ_David will not provide rational responses because as a Christian he believes in the irrational.

The propaganda he believes is essentially the same as propaganda that is always used to justify the privileged economic position of the minority – it is not based on fact or truth. Centuries ago the privileged position being protected was that of the clergy and the divine right of kings. Now it is the financial elite.

The rise of fundamentalist right wing religion in politics (Christian or other) is an expression of the crisis of the current economic and political order. The privileged few are forced to rely on, appeal to, promote and provoke the most backward irrational sentiments (including religion, racism, xenophobia) in order to divide the population, cover up and prop up the crumbling economic system.

I’m not suggesting BOAZ_David is one of the privileged few, he just believes their propaganda. Propaganda about God and the second coming of Christ is just as credible as me telling you there are fairies at the bottom of my garden. If you believe it then you can believe anything whether it is based on fact or not.

I doubt there is any point engaging with him because in the end he will just resort to fairytales.

"Liberation" of Iraq?

How do you liberate a country from itself?

I suppose before the Allies liberated France from the Germans in WW2, the Germans first had to pre-liberate France from the French.

I thought the purpose of the war was "we don't want to get rid of Saddam, we just want to disarm him".

If the US claims it can read the time on Saddam's watch via satellite and send a missile down his chimney, why couldn't it confirm the existence of WMD before launching this phoney war?

Iraq wasn't attacked because it was a threat, it was attacked because it was weak. Saddam had a "beware of the dog" sign out to scare his neighbours but didn't have the dog to back it up.

War isn't a different form of politics - it is simply a failure of diplomacy.

The whole miserable saga, as well as the events surrounding the 911 "incident", is beginning to unravel.

Dear Marilyn
can you please explain how providing:

Shelter
Safety
Food_Medicine
Educational opportunities.

...in detention centres where people who’s assylum claims are as yet indeterminate, is ‘torment’ or torture ? Strange how you define these words.

You see, I observe that most of the ‘torment’ is caused by the pressure groups and refugee advocates who clog up the system with challenges to the determination made by the legal authorities of Australia, and in turn cause long drawn out periods of detention.

Even the Baktiaries criticized the ‘lawyers’.

As I said, ur too close, to the point of obsession which clouds your vision.

Rache

You ‘liberate’ the majority of a population (Shia/Kurd) from an oppressive, brutal, merciless, mass murdering Saddam,just as we liberated France and Germany from Hitler.
Were the Shia and Kurds not liberated ? (its ‘yes’ or ‘no’ )

‘Irrational’ is when one looks at a small group who use firepower,Torture and brutality to force their privileged will on the rest and calls this a ‘nation’. I’m sorry, you are clearly incorrect here. (this is where you tell me “the USA ‘put’ him there” but analysis show this is incorrect. They did ‘support’ him during the Iran/Iraq war, -quite a different thing.)

Just remember, if you were in Iraq during Sadaams time, YOU might have been the next female who Uday chose to randomly rape and turn into a sex toy. (though I believe he liked 14 yr olds more )

My faith is not the determining factor in saying all this, its plain common sense.

Personally, I don’t have a problem with invading for the purpose of liberating, as long as it is not based on the theft of natural resources, or the establishment of an economic imperialism which excludes the locals. Sadly, I don’t know of such a thing actually happening.

TAO, I_live_in_a_shed :) 7mx 9m with_my_wife_and_3_kids

CHALLENGE.
can any of you who are ripping into my position, provide a viable ALTERNATIVE which is based on a sound ideology, a political system, which has not proven to be flawed due to human nature ? UN ? rofl.