Mr Jelata,

Thank you for coming back to us, I thought we have lost you. It is a pleasure to have you on this forum.

You said:

>>Mr Coach all monotheism are by nature exclusive so it was not surprising you listed your version of the differences. Let me quote the quran: "To you your religion and for me my religion".<<

This contradicts what the Qur'an is; the last revelation from God to confirm all previous revelations and holy books...right?

So my question is why is it so contradictory to the New Testament message (Injil)?

Why does it mention some prophets and not others?

You are told to respect and learn from the "people of the book" - Jews and Christians - yet you doubt our books saying we have "changed" them. What would be the purpose of that change hundreds of years before Islam was invented?

If islam was for all humanity, why does it deny the real nature of God and Jesus' real identity as previously revealed?

I think the Qur'an is a fabrication from Mohammed and his followers to convince the Arab masses to fight for supremacy on earth. Too many contradictions and errors are found in it which proves it cannot be from a higher authority (Allah) like it is claimed.

Until you can reason with us, and answer our criticism, Islam will remain a dangerous sect that believes in a false god.

Prove me wrong and I'll join you today.

Social scientists and historians are already having a ball over the nightmare that is now Iraq. They already teach about what Infan has mentioned, and we might have expected his credentials might have allowed him to give more credit to university lecturers - Phds and Professors, rather than leaving them as looney leftists and bleeding hearts that many of our Onliners name them as such.

The real enemy of the US even before WW2 has always been Iran, and it was when Mossadegh was accused of starting a Communist state in Iran, when America rigged up the yarn about Rejav who later became the puppet Shah.

The Guardian newspaper recently gave a write-up about Shirin Ebadi who wants democracy in Iran, but not the American style of freedom, saying how humiliating it was for Iranians to watch US troops move into her country in the early 1950s as if it was some primitive uneducated backwater. She says she has got that way over the years, she would rather have had Iran blessed with good potable water rather than the oil which has so much had the US and UK barging in and telling a litany of lies about liberty and justice.

Budding university historians are right onto stories like the one about Ibid, knowing they really bring out the truth about Western interests in the Middle East ever since Lawrence was double-crossed by his own countrymen after WW1. Why we cannot have such truths in our newspapers, is proof that though we can be sparked up as during WW2, this war in the Middle East, even despite the Nazi extermination of the Jews, is a much dirtier war because it has revived something that really should have ended with WW2 and the wonderful success of the Marshall Plan - and even the defeat of Stalinism should have been the end of problems in the Middle East because America as unipolar should have supported the UN decently rather treating it as a global rival, the recent appointment of Bolton to the UN, being a glaring example.

BB - Part Two

But America and Britain backed by Exxon and BP had to cook up something about freedom in the Middle-East for all Muslims, when it was only freedom for the big corpo’-oil grab, already now well on the way in Iraq with puppet leaders installed, and the US having built a fortified Embassy in the Green Zone any castle-crazy Crusader would have been proud of.

Possibly the Arabs should blame their own bin Laden for having organised 9/11 when it stirred up the Americans, Brits and us Aussies to be now given the chance to at last put the Middle East Moslems really under our thumb, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Condy Rice really clapping their hands. Or they had been, anyway.

Right now America’s number one enemy, Iranian leader Armadinejad has revved up his counter-offensive against the West with his successful get-together with Russia and China. Already called the SCO, the Shanghai Cooperative Organisation, in which Iran desires full membership, might help create a beneficial realpolitik balance of power in a world so sorely needed to counter this increasingly idiotic Anglopholic neo-imperialist mania. A ridiculous effort, besides the oil, to prove that Pax Americana is truly unipolar master or mistress of our globe - when if she had gone quiet the rest of the world might have revered her so much more as global leader.

Yes, our historians certainly already have plenty in their files, with a fed-up global public no doubt wishing they could write some sort of finish to it.

Mr Coach, i think you know many aspects of Islam. About your criticism, well, I'm not a scholar of Islam and I doubt my answers will satisfy you (you are a priest?), but let my try to answer 'as far I know'.

You said,
"the last revelation from God to confirm all previous revelations and holy books...right?"

We believe there are hundred thousands 'Prophets' for nowhere in earth there are folks without God sent His messengers to them.

We believe all Prophets (Jews, including Jesus and non Jew) tought the same principle: accept God in strict monotheism and surender to His will, as well as to His 'law' (not necessarily sharia).

This is perhaps way Islam can live side by side tolerably with many belief systems such as Zoroatrianis, Hinduism etc. Not perfecly though, of course, because religious sentiment is a natural tendency. But you must admit we did not grow such sentiment far away like in the West. We never imagine inquisiton and holocaustry.

About our belief system, we are less exclusive toward Judaism but unfortunately, since Christianity regard Jesus as representation of God, we can not accept this belief as a religious truth. Quran: "God is not Trinity". This doesnt mean we must slay you, no. This exclusivism is purely a belief matter. "There is no compulsion in religion".

Mr Coach do not feel to be offended if we say either Torah and Bible had been corrupted.

Scriptures are fragile to corruption even there exist many sects of Judaism, Christianity, preserve their own version of scriptures with contradict each other.

Even we lost some verses of the Quran whatever Muslim had tried to preserve it, and Islamic sects raised because we do maintains different set of hadits and refer to different scholars.

I hope this my opinions could contribute you a bit more understanding. Good day.

Hello Jelata, and peace.
It seems to me that you see both sides of the coin. I commend you for that.

Can you tell, do you believe that the killings by Islamist for Islam is a good thing? Or correct under Islam?

I do not ask to make you feel uncomfortable. I feel that the killing by the coalition is wrong and the invasion of Iraq wrong. I am simply trying to get a feel for how an everyday Muslim sees the killing from their religion.

Like you, I agree that there seems to have been a corruption in the texts used by both the Christian and Islamic religions. Both have a variety of sub-groups in their midst that claim the ‘truth’ of the matter.

As a human, I do not celebrate the killing of al-Zarqawi. Any killing is not to be celebrated. That it was a necessity is also arguable but in any event a celebration of a killing is anathema to any truely peaceful religion or human belief.

One further question. Do you see Islam and Christianity existing in peace together in the future? Can Islam and Christianity exist without conflict over who is ‘right’ and who is the more ‘righteous’ follower?

I know the answers from the Christian posters. I am curious about how you, again as an everyday Muslim, feel about this possibility…

Best wishes,

Good morning, Jelata –

'we are less exclusive toward Judaism but … unfortunately we can not accept this belief as a religious truth.'

Whether or not the religions of the world accept each others beliefs, it is still possible to live in peace. I don’t need to believe in a person’s religion to respect his/her right to follow that religion. The trouble starts when one religion refuses to abide by this scenario – right now, that religion is Islam. I appreciate that Islam takes a somewhat different form in East Asia than in the Middle East – but beware, fundamentalist Islam is making inroads into countries like Malaysia and Indonesia, and now Thailand.

According to The Malaysia Star:

'Each Muslim preacher who marries an orang asli (indigenous) woman and naturally converts her as part of renewed efforts to propagate Islam among the 3,000-odd community in the state will be offered RM10,000. State Religious Affairs committee chairman Hassan Mahamood (PAS – Tawang) said the same incentive was applicable if the preacher was a Muslim woman who took an orang asli husband.'

Saudi Arabia continues to foster religious hatred in its schools, despite many assurances that it would rewrite textbooks that refer to Jews as 'apes' and Christians as 'swine'.

The [Freedom House] report cites extracts from textbooks for children aged between five and 16. It quotes the following exercise for the youngest children:

'Fill in the blanks with the appropriate words (Islam, hellfire): Every religion other than - is false. Whoever dies outside of Islam enters -.'

Older students learn:

'It is part of God's wisdom that the struggle between the Muslim and the Jews should continue until the hour (of judgment).'

As Loyola said:

'Give me a child til he is seven and he is forever after mine.'