To all the P.U.P's.

Its OK - your belief system is the only correct path. The rest of us, no matter how well we conduct our lives, are doomed.

Now can we actually have a discussion now? Or are the P.U.P's gonna continue with the my religion is bigger than yours game?

Back to topic. Much of Sharia Law is compatible with our system and some isn't. Some Muslims want it introduced. Most do not. For Australian law to work we need separation from religion and politics. We do not have that right now with think tanks like the Lyons Forum. This is very bad and causing divisions and alienation of many Australians, be they Christian, atheist, Muslim or whatever.

We need laws that treat everyone equally.

Therefore, introduction of Sharia law would be a big mistake, just as much as Christians running the whole show is a massive mistake.

Christians do not represent all Australians any more than any other religion.

I am aware that every religious person thinks that their way is the only way - this is very sad. Just look at the angst it causes on these forums.

Constantine the Great-the first Christian Roman Emperor, is claimed to have won a war because he fought under a christian symbol-the first christian war.

War was the norm everywhere-borders were flexible and constantly changed with the fortunes of battle and Empires were greatly admired and aspired to as well as hated. Christians inherited the Roman Empire after all.

Indo-Europeans constantly invaded the Middle East. The Persians,the Medes,the Scyths,the Hittites, the Philistines,the Luwians,the Ionians, the Greeks,the Romans,etc. The Indo-Europeans invaded Europe as well which was inhabited by other darker races, like Etruscans,-Raetians,-Ligurians,-Iberians,-Basques,-Siculans and other races obscure to us today. The Canaanites also had many colonies around the mediterranean. Invasion was the norm-the moslems were neither unique nor first there.

The crusades were predominantly led by the Roman Catholic Franks (a Germanic Confederation of tribes) with the approval of the Pope-not the Spanish.

BD:The *context*: Jamila said "...is similar to attributing the burning of witches in past times to the teachings of Christianity." Those Bible quotes *were* used to justify torturing and executing witches. The NT denounces witches as hellbound and our ancestors unlike the people on this list actually thought they were supposed to read the bible and do what it said(even the OT). They would consider the OLO Christians heretics (meaning someone who chooses for themselves-apt description I would say).

BD-I'm not convinced, bigotry is bigotry. How can *all* young widows be wanton gossips. Imagine going to the funeral where a woman is crying over the death of her husband leaving her with small children to bring up on her own and call her wanton and a gossip simply because she's young?

If a woman is left with small children and no means to support herself she may desperately search for another man to marry and she may resort to begging and prostitution if nothing else is available to her. Not wantonness but a woman who doesn't want to watch her children starve.

GZTan-You need anger management and conflict resolution classes and I genuinely mean that with compassion and not as an insult.

Redneck-out of space-next post. ;)

GZ Tan,

You missed the point yet again Mr Intellect.
The examples I gave was to show that I can practice my choices as a Muslim without conflict with Australian laws or values.

Whether the inheritance rules we follow makes sense to you is irrelevant. The point is it is perfectly legal. People can make a will to a pet or a cat and its still legal.

The same goes for not putting my savings into an interest earning account. At best you can call it stupid but it is legal.

Coachy,

Poor theology and poor logic. Ideally people compare apples to apples.
If you think poorly of women rights and inheritance in the Quran, then what do you think of woman rights in the Bible? for a starter there isn’t any.
If you are so keen on comparisons then compare apples to apples and don’t compare Holy scripture revealed 14 centuries ago with secular system that just emerged the last 50 years.

Hi Scout,

Whats a PUP?

Redneck,

"...Asian...world powers..."

Ordinary Asians will never enjoy the fruit of 'world power'. There are too many problems. My only fear is China may align with the devils (Islamic states) just so she can muscle up on the west.

"...Asian ...not as stupid as white...they...never embraced..multiculturalism..."

Not many want to live in Asia in the first place. Most places are screwed up.
Asians tend to be inward-looking. Multiculturalism is not a good fit.
Actually many educated Asians migrants here are wondering why Australian government is so STUPID to allow in so many migrants and refugees, especially those that do not integrate.

"...admire the social cohesion of Asians...white people self-centred...individualism..."

Asians only appear socially cohesive on the outside, due to shyness (inward-looking) and need to prove themselves. Inside is much selfishness and narrow-mindedness. Those who overly skew towards shyness turn to Islam (ie. Malays) or boxed in by an ideology (eg. N.Korea). Those overly skew towards proving themselves can exhibit excellence, also unimaginable atrocities (eg. Japanese in WW2).

Even being 'individualistic', westerners often engage and enjoy open inter-personal communication. Communication between Asians are is lacking, tend to be narrow-minded.

"...Asians are lot more racist than us..."

True. In Malaysia racism is known as 'positive discrimination'. I advise white Aussies to feel less guilty as being racist. Aussies are definitely on moral high-ground, and in fact risk being taken advantage of due to your 'fair-go' ethos. Most Asians understand being racist can be a necessary evil- a matter of self preservation. They attack you for politicical reason (because you take racism seriously, silly).

I believe the white-Australia policy was important then and should be returned in some forms. Humans are fallible. Influx of too many migrants no doubt will stretch one's tolerance towards others and bring up ugliness in people.

Still, even if I were not to come to Australia due to 'racist' policies, I would not wish this land be infested with this evil plague called ISLAM in any form. At least I'd be able to come for a holiday, in a land of the free, especially free from Islam.

this post was meant to follow my previous, but OLO had me wait a day, sorry if no longer relevant, I will read the posts that have been posted since asap.

"Fida Mae, if you don't follow the Biblical tenets, laws, suggestions or whatever you call them, you're cast into the pit to suffer for all eternity. " actually this is a pretty sad view of christianity. Note that Christ said "no one comes to the father but through me", not through the church and its established norms (paul was establishing norms in his letters, norms which have subsequently been questioned). So salvation is available to anyone who is good, and is willing to accept Christ at the judgement, after meeting him i presume. As I said in my previous post, we have no laws in christianity, the only 'suggestion' which needs to be followed is to accept the Holy Spirit's inspiration, which means we are led towards the path of beauty rather than inanity. Perhaps Paul was being led towards the most beautiful path there was AT THE TIME, after all we don't know what was happening. Remember there were other leaders in the Christian community whose letters were not passed down, do you think they all would have come to the same conclusions?

Paul lays curses you say, obviously for opposing his ideas, so you must agree there were varying veiwpoints at the time and on these issues, a pity none of the alternative teachings were handed down.

Thanks for the discussion az

Scout.. you want a discussion ..ok.."your wrong" :)

You said "Christians no more represent Australians than any other religion"

This is not correct. You can argue with the ABS if you like. If you just consider 'Cultural' Christians, i.e. those who would identify with a particular tradition or other.. they represent around 69% if I'm reading it right.

So, based on your view, we DO have a very solid democratic right to influence and shape the legal cultural social fabric/texture of Australia.

Sharia law is a non starter. Its totally irrelevant. To the extent that it complies with the ruling legal regime, it doesn't matter if they agree.. we already have such laws, and where Sharia disagrees with our laws (Interest, burial, religious apostacy, alchohol and tobacco etc) it simply has no consideration whatsoever. So, overall, this is kind of a useless discussion.

What Sharia DOES represent though is the struggle of a civilization against babarity. (just for the record. 'we' are the civilization :)

So, because of the degree of threat to our way of life and freedom, the 'mine is better than yours' discussion is very relevant.

GZ

you touched on a rather scarey hypothesis, of China snuggling up to the Oil States for its own economic benefit and our detriment.
The demand for Gas (presumably from China) has impacted the market so much that the price has gone up by around 20% in just the past months !

As I've said 'ad-nauseum' wars are fought over resources not religion.

AZILIZ I truly feel you are grasping at straws on the 'widows' thing.
Pauls reference to the 'wanton' younger ones is a justification for excluding them from a PARTICULAR category of support, which is not INTENDED for young women who have extended familes. The idea that a sister in Christ would be neglected to the point of begging or hooking is out of character with every syllable he wrote and with common church practice including ours. (we have young single mums)

The use of O.T. to burn witches was not correctly interpreting the Bible, plain and simple.