Fide Mae,

You based your posting on a number of assumptions.
Muslims can and do invest in VC (Venture capital) type of model such as property funds, industry specific funds like mining or similar provided that is a socially responsible investment (ie gambling for example is not an industry we can invest in). the return on investment in these funds is much higher than the fixed interest anyway.

“How do you reconcile your religious obligation to disdain secular laws with your citizenship which requires you to honour secular laws?”

There is no conflict between Australian secular value and religious values and that is what I was trying to point to “Analyse this GZ Tan” Apologies to Robert De Niro. Australian secular values are the framework of the society that I accept and live in. I don’t judge or discriminate against others. Religion is a personal practice between the individual and God if he chose to believe in God. Many of my friends are of other religious beliefs or just straight atheists (sorry Rick!) but they are still my friends.

GZ Tan,

Becoming an intellect starts from respecting others and its usually earnt by others even who don’t believe in what you believe. Philo & Alchemist for example are true intellects even if we don’t share the same beliefs.

I noticed you & Coach (Mr & Mrs Intellects) would like to congratulate each other about how smart you are and all who disagree with you are not that smart.
Can I suggest anger management, serious councelling and an IQ test?

Coachy,

My question to you was clear and you failed miserably by using the clichets. The problem with "keep up or shut up" is you can't keep up but you never shut up!
Here is a challenge: can you allocate the next 10 postings telling us whats good about your faith without throwing mud on others?
Is it too hard Mr "God Is Love"?

Would one like to answer?

If a devout Muslim has become a citizen of Australia and has divorced two wives under Australian law and lives seperated on a dissability pension under Australian Law, and all receive taxpayer assistance to maintain three seperate houses and families. Also his two wives and seven children are supported by Australian legal benifits. Then under shari'ah laws he still remains married and practises cungical rights under shari'ah law:

Under whose law is he condemned as he divorced both wives under Australian laws? Under shari'ah he maintains his rights and responsibilities towards his shari'ah legal wives. This is an example of coexistence of both laws.

Can we endorse that both systems coexist?

Fellow_Human,

You asked a question – to which YOU gave the answer:

“If you think poorly of women rights and inheritance in the Quran, then what do you think of woman rights in the Bible? for a starter there isn’t any.”

I however gave you my opinion on that:

“In Christianity men and women are equal. So the state law is just fine by me. At least it can always be amended when necessary - not stuck in the seventh century like some.”

Now you are running out arguments about how women are really mistreated in islam, so you decide to go for the usual personal attacks – we all have figured you out here – so nothing’s new.

I don’t need 10 posts to explain Christianity. The answer to that you again have provided:

“God IS Love”.(full stop!)

What about Allah? Could you honestly say the same about your god?

Oooops I forgot "it" is unknowable (non-person not male nor female, right?) – just fear him, believe his prophet, and hope his angels will be in a good mood on judgement day.

The reason why you perceive my description of your so called “religion” as mud throwing is that it is the truth.

Truth hurts. You have never condemned anything I said about any aspect of islam.

You cannot honestly defend accusations about your prophet.

You cannot hide the verses and interpretations of your “holy” book.

You cannot dismiss any allegation I and others made about you and your fellow muslims.

BUT you have the audacity to challenge me to show (you) what’s good about Christianity.

I could have taken the bate – besides we’ve done it here ad nauseam.

The fact is you don’t really WANT to know, because to explain Christianity is to further expose your ‘religion” as a total fraud.

You can’t handle the truth my friend and you are a hypocrite.

How’s that for saying it as it is…err.. mud throwing?

GZTan-7 sentences of pure abuse-0 facts. Come on GZ, You can do it, just try

harder-like giving up cigarettes or alcohol. Better luck next time.

BD-you see straws--I see three brass monkeys.

By your own statement you're happy with ALL young widows being branded wanton.

You make the assumption the widows had other means of support through extended family. Christianity was very divisive--there are many documented cases where families abandoned their christian converts. Paul was so early it's beyond possible but extremely probable some young widow's extended families would have cast them out for being christian.

Then there would be young widows who couldn't depend on extended family

because of their death, disability, poverty or even just selfishness. You haven't explained anything except that it's alright to abuse, generalise and villify.

Hooking is extremely common in cultures where a widow/abandoned wife or wife of an invalid has no means of support and restrictions on what work they can do-they didn't have a pension back then or assisted education, etc. Prostitution was very common in Rome. As I said, given no other means of support mothers have regularly turned to prostitution and it's not unlikely to be one of the behaviours Paul is referring to when he says "wanton".

To say the christian community wouldn't allow that flies in the face of what Paul is saying--he's instructing the christian community not to be supportive because young widows are sl*ts.

As I said, "Paul could have said-I'm sorry we can't afford to support all widows and we hope the unfortunate young widows find solace in remarrying."

If you can turn black white and white black--let's just agree to disagree.

Fide Mae-so you don't agree with the bible? But the Bible was the document the Church was supposed to use to guide Christians. Read the Dei Verbum? The Church says every word in the Bible is Truth.

So you only follow you own inner intuitions as inspired by the Holy Spirit?

They burnt people at the stake for that--called them heretics.Cont...

OK--So can we get rid of the Bible now? It's too barbaric. Let's not call it the Word of God. But extract what is worthwhile and chuck the rest. What do you say? How about we write a new Bible--one more intuned with today?

After all it's an awful influence--let's remember there are Christians that are pro Armageddon and really believe War and torture as the solution to todays problems and that doesn't conflict with the Bible.

Christians have a wide range of very repressive and hateful beliefs towards others they justify from the Bible. What are we to do with them? Especially, if they say--"But we follow the Bible--you don't".

What if we get a wave of fundamentalists? There are many christians on OLO that point out the awful things in the Koran and insist Moslems follow it--what should we do with the Christians who are silly enough to believe in the Bible literally? And what if they begin to grow and become dominant? How awful. Christians who believe the Bible!

Fide Mae--are you sure your beliefs are representative of most christians?

Coach--men and women are equal? You gave your opinion on that? You didn't read my post on this?--scroll back to the one with all the bible quotes about the inferiority of women. Are you anti the Bible too?

"We all have figured" I do hope you are not including me! When was this conversation that "we all" got together and made this agreement? Is there a secret second forum going on here just for the christians? Or do you just infer that from others posts?

Your post to Fellow Human? 11 insults, an opinion and 2 facts-the line about you mud-throwing-now that was a fact. God is Love? Then why are christians less loving than others? I really don't understand how you can say that and not try to be loving. Does God do it all for you and then you don't have to?

I am trying to work this out.

Fellow_Human,

Bad news! I'm back from anger management.

You have been evasive, deceptive and muddled in your mind ALL ALONG.

Exercising a free-choice 'legally', where you bank money and whether you write a will to your pet has NOTHING to do with the issues.

The issues are:
1. Australian secular laws and Islamic Shariah laws coexist - NO
2. Conflict between secular laws and Islamic Shariah laws - YES

In Australia, there is NO Shariah Law. It is not recognised by the Parliament, not recognised by Australians. It does not even exist and cannot be EXERCISED.

Shariah Laws only exist in the minds of Muslims within their secret turf.

Many Muslims do not even recognise Australian laws. When a Muslim rapes a girl, he claims it is the girl's fault (ie. her immorality under Islam) and plead ignorance of Australian laws (ie. he's not guilty under Islamic laws).

Polygamy under Islamic laws directly conflicts with Australian laws. But Muslims circumvent Australian laws by practising polygamy secretly, privately. They then tell lies to Centrelink and thoroughly ABUSE the social welfare system.

The fact that they are able to circumvent Australian Laws is a BIG WORRY. Circumvention in no way imply coexistence of the laws. Social benefit rort by Muslims who flaunt Australian Laws should be investigated and addressed as a matter of urgency.

All Laws...(ie. legal, judicial boundary) have a boundary. Hence they are either mutually exclusive, partially exclusive or inclusive.

Shariah laws enbedded within Australia laws - FALSE
Islam accepts secular laws - FALSE
Secular laws and Islamic laws are compatible- FALSE

The laws are mutually exclusive. Nobody can be legal subject to two different laws in Australia.

Philo: "Can we endorse that both systems coexist?"

Do not use the term 'system' please, as it is vague and suggest a way of life rather than a clearly defined legal boundary. There can be a million and one different 'systems' in Australia, But only one set of Australian Law. You're muddying the water and hoodwinked by FH's deception.

Aziliz,
How am I doing?