DAVID LATIMER

On Malaysia, things have changed soooo much there in the past decade.
It really is a very nice place these days, and as I said, the PM is a gem. I'd take him as an uncle anyday. Same with Datuk Hussein Onn, (former PM) but not Dr Mahathir.

I would welcome Muslims giving out literature at my Church ! because I would relish the thought of setting them straight about their prophet. I'm more lick than bite in person though :)

Around the world, in every nation and tribe, there are those who name the name of Jesus, their Lord and Saviour. Confirming the words of the Lord Himself "Go into all the world, making disciples from all peoples"

On this article, I still feel that those who are so lavish in praise are in danger of missing the subtle para message. "Islam is ok, its just a few bad eggs giving it a bad name"

Bashirs litany of Western colonial sins was not accompanied by a list of Islamic expansionist sins, and it should have been.

Irfan takes the same approach. Neither of them are challenging the fundamentals of Islam itself.

By all means criticize Jesus, look at what He did and said.. and take we Christians to task on that basis. Sadly, when I look at Mohammed, I find a man who was all of the things listed repeatedly in these forums. No one has denied them, and Islamic sites don't deny them they just give spin or PR.

When commenting on the murders of Kaab bin Al Ashraf and the daughter of Mawan, an Islamic site from Malaysia just points to the 'precarious nature' of the Muslims and their need to defend themselves, thus confirming the murders of these people.

So, from the very beginning and the history closest to Mohammed, murder of mockers and opponents was quite acceptable. This did not happen in all cases, and the cases where mercy was shown are those which are used in the PR/sugar coated version of Islam.

Contrast this with Jesus, and the Apostles.

Alchemist,

http://www.newcriterion.com/archives/24/02/what-dark-ages/

Near the end of his book, he [Stark] quotes from a study group of Chinese scholars who have been trying for at least two decades to figure out the success of the West, as compared with China itself and Islamic culture:

"One of the things that we were asked to look into was what accounted for the success, in fact, the pre-eminence of the West all over the world. We studied everything we could from the historical, political, economic, and cultural perspective. At first, we thought it was because you had more powerful guns than we had. Then we thought it was because you had the best political system. Next we focused on your economic system. But in the past twenty years, we have realized that the heart of your culture is your religion: Christianity. That is why the West is so powerful. The Christian moral foundation of social and cultural life was what made possible the emergence of capitalism and then the successful transition to democratic politics. We don’t have any doubt about this."

Upwardly mobile Chinese seem especially attracted to Christianity, which they see as the key to modernity.

And here is how Stark begins his concluding three pages:

"Christianity created Western Civilization. Had the followers of Jesus remained an obscure Jewish sect, most of you would not have learned to read and the rest of you would be reading from hand-copied scrolls. Without a theology committed to reason, progress, and moral equality, today the entire world would be about where non-European societies were in, say, 1800: A world with many astrologers and alchemists but no scientists. A world of despots, lacking universities, banks, factories, eyeglasses, chimneys, and pianos. A world where most infants do not live to the age of five and many women die in childbirth… "

You’ve said elsewhere dimensionalist evolutionism is your metaphysic and that with your special knowledge your consciousness will survive into the fourth dimension.

I understand now why you must constantly attack Christianity, as soon as you stop you’ll feel the pull towards it.

That was a great article. One of the most refreshingly honest and, at least potentially, optimistic exposes on the most taxing subject of our times in a long long while. The author would be a welcome guest at my table anytime.

It is seem that right wing extremists and all white racists, with or without hood, try to turn the Christians again the muslims. The story started from the famous speech of President Bush, an immature, Irresponsible and dangerous for our planet, politician, when he declared that he started a new crusade! If we want to be honest the Christians (I am Christian) and most times in the name of Jesus made the most crimes again humans, but as winners never passed from the court. I think it is better to try to solve the existence problems than to try to create new one.

If anyone wishes to learn about the values of sharia, you can find a short summary by visiting the website of the centre for independent studies, going to their search feature and typing in the word 'islam'. click on the first item and you will find an edited version of the Acton Lecture deliverd in 2002 by Professor Mohammad Fajrul Falaakh from the Gadjah Mada University in Indonesia. Read the 5 values expressed there and compare them to Peter Costello's 6 values in his Sydney Institute speech.

keith, sharia principles themselves state that sharia laws dealing with governmental matters and criminal sanctions do not apply outside a sharia state. and the only sharia-endorsed amputations i am aware of in australia are halal slaughter and a procedure that i underwent when i was a wee-toddler.

Martin, What does your reply have to do with theologists in Australia. Spark, now theres a good humourist, good fiction.

“You’ve said elsewhere dimensionalist evolutionist is your metaphysic and that with your special knowledge your consciousness will survive into the fourth dimension.”

I don't remember ever saying I had special knowledge. We live in a dimensional world, your god if he existed would be in another dimension unable to be seen by us, just common sense and logic. Its easy to suck your lot in, your fear knows no bounds.

Sadly you have no idea of theology, being paranoid as you are about reality. Drawing me to your beleifs,I was born into the church, spent years ordained, studied and traveled to find some veracity for its methods and expressions. Conclusion, a violent myth.

You and your ilk constantly show how narrow and blind you are, you can't even accept a member of your oppositional faction being honest. You conveniently forget the sordid on going history of your own christian monotheistic faction, just read the news today about Ireland, no change there, they just had a rest from the normal christian violent approach, now they are back into it.

Sadly its only the infantile that try to change history or rewrite it to suit themselves. It's well known that most of the Old Testament comes from other, more ancient, writings. Even Jewish writers admit that most of the "Hebrew" writings were merely taken freely from Sumerian, Babylonian, Egyptian, and even Greek sources. The Book of Job is from an early and obscure Greek play. There are "many parallels" between the Vedic Hymns and the Books of Joel and Isaiah. The Book of Genesis is based on the Sumerian creation myth. The story of Noah comes from the Sumerian legend of Gilgamesh. The Psalms were taken word for word from Akhenaton's Hymns to the Sun, written 600 years earlier in Egypt. The Ten Commandments were taken wholly from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. Thats real history, unlike your deluded myths.