Leigh,

Sorry for my presumptions regarding your name. I have known many Leigh’s/Lee’s and have never known of a male to spell it “Leigh”. Even Redneck made the same presumption in a previous thread by saying “Marry me” (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=3856#20558) …I’m sure you remember. ;-)

And yes, where are our rights as males?

But this is all off the topic and I’d appreciate if you could give some valid justifications for my arguments against the death penalty, such as…

1. The inconsistencies from state-to-state in America’s execution rate: -

(Since 1976)
- Texas: 355

- All other states with capital punishment: 642

That’s over 1/3 when Texas only has less that 1/10 of the total population of all the execution happy states. Yet execution is reserved only for the worst of murders. (In the last few decades anyway).

2. Or why it’s alright to execute the estimated 1-5% of death row prisoners in the US who are later found to be innocent? (Figures are sketchy as authorities - for obvious reasons -suppress this data).

One could argue that it prevents murders but when you give governments and justice systems such a power, you’re setting precedence. And I for one, don’t trust politicians THAT much. Nor do I trust a sometimes flawed judicial system.

Sure, murderers kill too. But we don’t trust them to protect us, convict the guilty or run our country now do we?

Itchyvet,

To answer your questions…

I personally don’t condone America’s execution either. But there are some distinct differences…

1. The US doesn’t execute people for drug trafficking offences.
2. The US would be more willing to hand over an Australian criminal to us if we asked.
3. The US has a judicial system that would take age, prior record, a guilty plea and a show of remorse into account when deciding on someone’s death.

You say that the other countries execute more people. Of course – Singapore only has a population of 4.5 million. But per capita, it is widely believed that Singapore executes the most in the world.

[Post deleted for flaming. Poster suspended for one month.]

If Nguyen's death makes no difference to the drug dealers and potrayed as a drug mule. And Singapore and australia being civilized countries. I guess Nguyen should be spared. I guess its a straight forward thinking to that.

If thats the case, how about the bomb makers and bomb mules in indonesia that kills dozens of australians. Their Death sentences (recent indonesia death sentences to bomb maker) will make no different to terrorist as theres so many of them. The bomb maker even asked for forgiveness etc, poor background as to Nguyen. And since Indonesia and Australia are civilized countries. I guess Bomb maker should be spared; as compared to Nguyen's case.

How about we sign a petition to spare the bali bomb maker and ask john howard to get indonesia to spare him.

Spare bomb maker now! Spare them all.

Another thread talking about a death of a drug mule. Watching paint dry would be more beneficial. The subject should be rated NFI (No further Interest)

The evidence supporting the efficacy of the death penalty is equivocal at best - its application rests on the choices we make and those things we like to do - some people like to kill other people and some dont' and see it as a waste of a rope, a bullet and ultimately a life.

If the death penalty worked murder would cease, drug running would cease - and I cant see either happening.

The age old addage of "if it saves just one life" fell over as soon as we executed one person in error - let alone the countless hundreds who are still kiled in error today.

And we are awash with assertions about opponents of the death penalty being weak coupled with the like assertion that we are a weak nation - baulking at state sanctioned murder and letting in hordes of those pre disposed to crime - an errroneous claim once a longditudinal analysis of crime is undertaken - it is a stupid link but made with boring regularity.

I would contend it is far from weak to not eradicate that which we fear and far from weak to welcome the different.

Too many here are scared of crime because what it says about us as a collective - and too many of us are scared of the different because we think their principles are more strongly held and in some cases maybe more vaild than ours - hence some of want to see them dead turned back to sea.

Arjay,

"Order,freedom and prosperity does come at a cost.How many of us really appreciate the sacrifices of those who fought in WW2 for such freedoms under far less sympathetic conditions than Nguyen faces."

Thanks. That's the closest someone's come to validating the death of innocents in order to justify having the death penalty (as I've asked some self-rightious, conservative posters to do above).

...but still no cigar.

Sacrificing civillians is quite different to sacrificing soldiers who are trained and prepared to die to do their job and for a cause they believe in.

Sure, a lot of the soldiers in WWII were drafted against their wishes. But when it comes to the imposed threat to society, criminals are completely different to the Japs and Nazis. For instance, criminals (as bad as they are) don't have a government or military planning tactical manuvures to take-over of an entire country. Criminals don't have fleets of kamakaze pilots ready to destroy military targets. Nor are they gasing people by the millions; or trying to overthrow governments.

Bad comparison.