Fellow Human;

I have heard of Bosnia before, as have most people. I have heard about several atrocities committed there, including Srebrenica in 1995. I think this is, numerically at least, the war crime you refer to. I have also heard of defilement and torture that occurred, even including the removal of fingers so as to facilitate a "Serbian Salute". However, you said:

Fellow Human: Not in Australia, but Bosnia 1996, Orthodox Christians (Lead by an Orthodox Priest) killed 8,000 Muslim women and children, cut off two fingers of each hand (babies were not spared) so they meet Jesus with “Trinity” fingers. I have not seen any condemnation and the Pope said : “we are all Christians”, should I assume he included those criminals as well?

Those links you provide refer to the said atrocity nowhere. Why did you post them? The 8000 men, women and children with no fingers simply did not happen. Perhaps you would like to reconsider your position.

As for the papal reference, perhaps you could explain precisely what you do mean by mentioning the pope and the phrase “we are all Christians” in that context. This after re-reading your post in an attempt to understand. A benign interpretation does not occur to me.

And finally, do you not consider the NATO/US response to the events there as a fairly unequivocal response?

Robert, 21 November,

I have lost track of where these comments are intended to be directed (issue wise that is). I do recall concluding previously that the problem was a religious problem that required a religious solution. As I wade through these comments trying to spot the issue being discussed, I notice side issues that I would like to comment on.

I have no historical knowledge of Calvin. What I do know is that Calvin is regarded by some as a prophet. I am only aware of one prophecy by Calvin which goes like this, “People are going to become so sick of and so fearful of lawlessness that they will legislate themselves, or allow themselves to be legislated into slavery”. Current legislation suggests we are well on our way. I personally don't have confidence in modern prophets. It is not that they might not be valid, it is that by the time they are tested and proven it will be too late.

The religious problem is merely the fulfillment of Judeo-Christian prophesy. The Muslim and Christian religions are equally apostate (not necessarily the individual people). The religious solution is individuals may seek redemption in the Lord. And then sit back and watch it all happen. The perceived religious problem is a red herring that could divert those called from finding the truth. Every man for himself, abandon ship.

FH, yes Islam is growing, but that is more a question of demographics. Abortion, birth control etc are not available in many third world countries as they are in the West. Also Muslims generally have larger families then many others. Its debatable whether thats a good thing for the planet or not. Personally I think its a negative.

You clearly have a very moderate interpretation of Islam, which is great to hear, but that does not solve the worldwide problem, so we have to look at the bigger picture. Fact is that wherever Islam seems to go, violence in the name of religion eventually seems to follow. The arguments within Islam about which interpretation to which scripture should be applied, are as endless as they are in the Xtian community.

If we look at Egypt, where IIRC you are from, the Muslim brotherhood are a rising threat, tourists were killed, Coptic Christians attacked, at the end of the day its endless violence in the name of religion. No matter what FH thinks, you will be outnumbered by others who want to kill in the name of religion, which is sad really.

There are good reasons why many Muslims prefer to migrate and live in Western secular democracies. They escape the religious violence in their own countries. They can express themselves relatively freely and live their lives as they please to a large extent.
Western economies are not dragged down by religious fanatacism, to a large degree. But think about this: Once a country by reasons of demography becomes largely Muslim, all the problems that exist in Islamic countries, ie. political Islam, fanatical Islam etc, will grow accordingly in the new county and once again people will want to leave and escape to somewhere else without these problems.

So you'd better hope that Australia never ever becomes an Islamic
country :)

Yabby,
I must say I see you are beginning to reason. Keep it up.

It is obvious that some here want to identify as the friends of Islam while they know nothing about the Islamic doctrine in its outworkings at the national level. These abuse Australia and western democracies that have had hundreds of years of influence by Christian values and want to criminalise us as violent etc.

On the front page of today’s Australian is a story about NSW Labor MP Julia Irwin who argues that the Koran “is no match for violent Bible”. She claims devout Christians are “happy clappers” and says the Judeo-Christian God is the leader in terms of blood and violence, and Islam does not compare: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17395939%255E2702,00.html

Who is she kidding. That is the trouble with ignorance.

Regarding Calvin he wasn't a prophet, he was a reformist preacher and commentator on Biblical theology.

If these blogs are any indication it is the complete necessity to maintain separation of church and state.

I do not want to be ruled by:
Christians
Jews
Hindus
Muslims
Buddhists
Wiccans
Pagans
Hobbits
Fairies
Elves are pretty cool though - but a bit up themselves.

However, I think my cat has a very cool take on life and would take instruction from her .......

Have decided to worship cat people - they believe in independence and freedom of belief in that "you can believe any damn thing you like; just don't bother me" philosphy.

Think this thread has run its course, unless anyone has some ideas on friendship and cooperating with one another?

Any contributions folks?

PS - FH despite the persistence - 'the usual culprits' are not indicative of Australians in general. I believe that tolerance will win - otherwise we are doomed.

Miaow to all.

Yabby,

Minor corrections if I may:
In above posting, you confused Muslims (religion) with Muslim Brotherhood (political movement) with tourists killed (Islamist terrorists) and Coptic Christians… None is related to religion. I happen to have lived in Egypt for almost 3 decades. Majority of Muslims in Egypt are moderate easy going people.

Also on growth of Islam & Muslims, it is not related to race or demography; search an SMH article on the number of new converts to Islam in Australia. The Arabic speaking % of Muslims today is below 16%.

Pr P Pig,

The papal reference I quoted was in relation to ongoing confirmation by the pope referring to ‘all Christians are/ should unite’ without excluding Orthodox Serbian priests or denouncing their acts. I referred to it for previous posters who expect Muslims to apologise whenever a crime is committed by a terrorist. The types of body mutilation was a point of reference in a Bill O’reilly (FoxNews) briefing hour interviewing a group of Bosnian massacre survivors living in the US today, none of the UN or other officers denied their claims. Not sure what is your point?

Scout,

Actually Egyptians worshipped the cat (I had a gorgeous black cat in my Cairo appt).
But I can imagine there was an OLO ‘carved in stone’ forum where the dog and mouse worshippers will attack the poor black cat worshippers. I bet even 5000 years ago there was someone in the streets of Cairo carving ’my dog is better than your cat’.

I know Aussies are beautiful loving and accommodating people and I am proud to be one.
I am doing my bit (here and on my blog) for friendship and humanity and found great people like you, Robert, Reason, Dawood. There was an old Egyptian saying: Wolves cry never stops a cruising tribe.
(Apologies to the wolves since they have no choice).