Coach,

You insist on the "Boaz wanna be" so time to test the faithful: how can Jesus & God be one when Jesus:

1. Was praying for God.
2. Although introduced tolerant spiritual teachings of the Torah, he clearly identified the commandments & Mosaic law as everlasting (God is One).
3. Thought God foresake him on the cross.
4. Did not know when judgement day is but pointed 'only the father' knows.
5. Torah first commandments since Adam "God is One". Why would God 's key message on his unity?

Doesn't all of that confirm that Jesus cannot be God and he was in fact a prophet?

Where is the reliable proof/ justification for you to ignore the first commandment?
Awaiting a theology skills display..

It may be irritating and annoying for non-Islamic Australians to have become regularly confronted by a religion and culture which is just such a damn nuisance to have to understand being so alien to our own.

All the same, it is probably a fair tit for tat to expect people to at least attempt persistance at tolerance and understanding since we have so whole-heartedly supported this government in political and military infiltration of Islam-dominant cultures.

Not to mention the pang for the good old days, prior to the rapidly increasing globalisation of Western capitalist culture and Western 'democracy',(round about the same time we were having to learn tolerance for the 'yellow-peril' also so alien and such a damn nuisance, oh it was so easy back then, comparatively)prior to all these complications which require more of us intellectually than we're used to dealing with!

Guess ya just can't have your trips to Bali, Big brother and footy and barbies on Saturdays AND your complete peace of mind about what's going down in the rest of the world anymore.

tsk...what a shame

Fellow Human,
On your last post I can generally say I agree with yout infrence that Jesus was a prophet. However he was more than just proclaiming a message, he was demonstrating the very heart and attitudes of God by his life and deeds.

That is his primary "Word from God'; it is more than an understanding a doctrine about God being one, it was the demonstration of the sinless life and the forgiving heart of God. Fanatical adherence to monotheism is not as important as the devotion of mind, body and soul to the character and attitude of God, and reflecting of those in our human relationships.

Christians I believe should not worship the humanity of Jesus, but the character he expressed and proclaimed that is worthy of all praise because he faithfully represented God. God is not a spatial being, so we do not worship a creature. God is one spirit, and the spirit Jesus expressed as the Messiah should gain our respect that we follow his life and example. His words agreed with his life, and demonstrated compassion to his enemies. Hence we recognise God can forgive even his enemy, and those that represent him who are crucified in His name. This is the day of grace and the day of reconing, as Jesus taught, occurrs after death. Those that follow him must take no revenge upon one's enemy.

Fellow_Human,

You are trying to argue some theological points using your concepts of Christianity as it has been taught and interpreted to you.

Now if you want a theological answer you have to agree first that my source of information “The holy Scripture” is a reliable document to you.

By the tone of your above post you seem curious to know the truth but I don’t think you are ready to accept it.

I repeat my previous stance on the matter of comparing our beliefs: it is of no value to you personally if you still don’t believe our scriptures are authentic because someone told you so.

The explanation you require will demand that you honour and respect the Holy nature of the word of God (the bible).

The theology of the Trinity for example is the theme than runs in the bible from cover to cover.

To the Christian God is one, has always been one and will always be one. That doesn’t explain nor negate His Triune nature of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I won’t go further because for you to understand that – let alone believe it – you need to read the scriptures (the whole bible) and not take the false interpretations you have been fed all your life as truth.

Philo (&Coach),

“On your last post I can generally say I agree with yout infrence that Jesus was a prophet. However he was more than just proclaiming a message”
“Jesus is the word of God”

Agree with both statements, they make sense to me and they are in the Quran.

The only area where we don’t go and shouldn’t is the statement “Jesus is God” or the “Son of God”.

The whole Trinity theory is too confusing for people of your own faith; I grew up in a Catholic school and could never make sense of it whichever way it is explained.

It is really simple: the whole 3=1 and 1=3 is complex and alien to Jesus and the Torah. I don’t understand why not just stick with the first commandment (Torah and Quran) that God is one. Why try to bring in complex philosophy into something so simple and basic?

Anyway, according to Coach, only people with PHD in astrophysics may have a chance to understand, for the rest, blind faith is good enough.

Having said that, I respect your ‘truth’, hope you can respect mine and others.

Good weekend everyone,

Fellow_Human,
As you will recognise from my previous posts on another topic, I do not hold to the concept of Trinity. That was a Roman spatial idea developed in the 3rd century to place the genetic source of the humanity of Jesus into a Godhead.

A Biblical understanding of what is meant by "son of God" is clearly exegeted in the Gospel of John and his letters to the believers. Being a son of God is as, John described, one whose spirit has been born of God. It has nothing to do with metaphysics, genetics or miraclous conception. John 1: 12 - 18.

The apostle John was one who listened to Christ teaching for three years with intent, and he identified his spirit was exactly in the image of God. John said no man has seen God at any time but Jesus as Christ [Messiah] declared him. Jesus humanity did not make him God on Earth. However the spirit of God was fully expressed in Christ. The character, actions and attitudes of Jesus as the Christ, John recognised was fathered by God. Though John uses the word spermotosa, it has a spiritual significance and not a natural genetic significance.

Jesus recognised his relationship to God on the basis of God was his father. He was not the son of God by some genetic fathering, and this concept is denied by John in the gospel 1: 13.