Scout,
Perhaps you now realise not all religious people wish to live in harmony, that is the point of this post if you had not already realised. Some people who believe they are abiding by their religious mandate from Allah want to kill those they dissagree with, and especially the infidels. We are attempting to identify the foundations of their authority for their convictions, so we can undermine their authority and practise. Just pretending all religious people are good could have you murdered. Wake up and smell the roses or you will smell fire and nitrogen!

We agree F_H is not among the extremists, but he needs to identify where Islam is rotten. This will assist others religious people to be aware of the claims being made by some Islamists, and clarify what can be allowed in a diverse culture.

Well Philo, its a bit like this: If we read history, then yes, Islam has been a violent religion. But then so has Christianity. A read
of Geoff Blainey's " A Short History of the World" includes plenty
of examples of both relgions involving violence, as heretics were
burned etc. The Reformation was not about tippy toeing through the tulips after all.

The sad thing is that people become so passionate about their religion that they kill other people in the name of whatever religion. Perhaps thats a good reason why secular democracy, where religion is no more then a lifestyle choice, each believing whatever they want, is the way to go.

One thing I know is this: At the end of the day, when you finally fall off the proverbial perch, you will rejoin the foodchain as the worms or whatever get you in the end. Your dna might continue in your kids, but the rest of you is recycled, no matter which species.
So Scout is right, spend that extra time smelling the roses etc,
for heaven is here and now, to be experienced and enjoyed!

BTW, the worms don't care about your religion, no matter which one, they will get you in the end. On that cheery note, enjoy your weekend :)

Yabby,
Faith, hope, joy, character are not organic protein that worms rely upon. So get it right, you are not essentially your body, your body is the vehicle by which your spiritual life impacts our world. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. What lives on is spiritual. Of course being atheist you do not believe in the eternal nature of character, wether good or bad. Good character will build a good future, anti-social character burns a destructive fire. What has been passed off as religion is not of the Designer's intention.

Those that see religion as merely State enforceable laws attempt to control behaviour. A true relationship with God is a personal matter of education of the heart and mind to accept the highest principles of character and understand our design.

Dear Yabby

I fully agree at face value with your statement "Both religions have been violent over the centuries"

but have they ?

Yabs..what do you know of the first 300 yrs of the growth of Christianity and that of Islam during a similar period ?

Can you show me from the New Testement, the teaching of Christ or Paul or the other writers of the New testament even ONE reference which actually 'orders' Christians to take up arms in defending themselves or to take over territory ? I can show you numerous direct references of this nature in Islamic scriptures.

I really would like you to try, because only then will you see where we are coming from.

There is a direct line of "violence" going back to Mohammed himself in Islam. There is a patchy but connectable violent line in Christendom history going back to......

wait for it...
no, wait more...
sit down first...
now take a deep breath.... Ok..here it is

EMPORER CONSTANTINE ! who came to the thone of Rome in around 300 AD.

Prior to 'The State' taking over the running of 'The Church' there was no battle, no war, no fight no ANYthing except poor believers being hurled to the lions, turned into human torches, blamed for every calamity, and their humiliating perverted deaths made into a regular 'sporting fixture' at the Colosseum.

Failure to acknowledge this, is intellectual dishonesty.

The only possible conclusion is this:

HUMAN GREED, NOT THE FAITH
When the 'Church' is influenced by politicians it is used very much as an 'opiate of the masses' and becomes a tool of political survival and growth of power.

Such events are not a result of "Christianity" the faith, but of 'man' and his carnal greed.

So, Yabs. I announce to you, and all who can read this that the Messiah is Jesus, appointed by God as judge of the living and the dead. I urge you to give your heart and mind to Him and receive His forgiveness.

longlost

Heidi, please telephone me (07 5443 2773) or your father (0249 522362). You don't have to explain anything if do not wish to. We simply want you back in our lives again. Life is far too short.

Grandma has serious osteoporosis and is extremely debilitated. She is now 78 years of age. She is heartbrocken without you in her life. Your Dad is still very sick.

I saw you on a website. You are stunning, and congratulations on your success.

Love
Kay
PS: apologies to Moderators and other Posters. I know that this is not a personal message board. I hope you appreciate our difficulty and concern for "longlost".

Philo, what continues on, is your dna, in your kids. The soul is a human concept, going back to the Greeks etc, look it up. Religion borrowed this stuff from the old philosophers. Your mind is what your brain does. When you die, like it or not, the worms will eat all those cells that make up your mind too :) So enjoy heaven whilst it lasts!

Dear David, Your problem is that the old testament is an extremely violent book! Its part of your holy book. I have yet to see Xtians tear up their bibles and throw away the first section. You can't pick and choose with holy books. Either its all true or none of it is true. The rest is selective memory.

The Catholic Church, which represented Xtianity on this planet for
most of its history, has a history as a corrupt and at times violent organisation. Many many were burnt at the stake for heresy, or disagreeing with the Church.

So my philosophy is simple in a way. As religions have a history of violence and corruption etc, but no substantiated evidence for their claims, I much prefer my own ability to reason, then doing things for reasons of burning forever and other threats they try to use.

We could all have a great planet and live on it sustainably, if we tried and used our ability to reason. Religious dogma is preventing us from that in a way, as its representatives try to force their opinions on us.