Yabby,
A text without a context is a pretext. That is just what you have done here. In case you had not realised the OT is the history, culture, law and behaviour of Israel the sons of Abraham and their proselytes. Islam has an affinity with their theology, law and behaviour, they came from the same ethnic lineage originally.

The OT is in the Christian Bible to demonstrate the evolving background from which Christ emerged as full of grace and forgiveness - a greater than Moses the law giver [John 1: 17]. The principles of Christianity have roots in revelations given in the OT but are often obscure and not recognised. The message to Abraham was to bless all Nations, but this has been obscured to believe only Israel is chosen and blessed, and that view motivated the outcomes of their history.

Christ is radically different in his outworkings of the principles of the individuals relationship to God and others in society, and to all men. Bertrand Russell though an atheist said that every child should be given an education in the teaching of Christ [From his essays].
Ghandi recognised the message of Christ, but did not see it demonstrated in people who claimed to follow him.

Please demonstrate where he used violence. One who follows Christ must live by his words.

Rupert, ok let me try to explain... The whole Islam story is perhaps a little more complex, then most of us from the West would understand. If you want to understand the life of Mohammed and how Islam came together, Ali Dashti's "23 Years" is pretty good. In the end, Kohmehni killed him as an old man, in his Iranian jails. If you want to understand bin Laden etc, you need to read Sayiid Qutb, his "Milestones" which is on the net, will explain where the Muslim Brotherhood and violent Islam are coming from.

Yup, there is no doubt about it, Islam has a violent history and various interpretations continue to promote violence. Saudi petrodollars have a lot to answer for in that regard.

We in the West are extremely fortunate. We can freely comment about these things, these days. Separating religion from politics was hard fought for, it did not happen overnight. If I said what I do about religion in an Islamic country, they would have shot me long ago :( Islam has yet to undergo it reformation period.

Philo, your are going to have to scratch your bald patch to decide if
you worship God or Jesus. God the old boy, as shown in the OT, was a violent being. Jesus preached love, but then so did the hippies...
If the OT is sacred text according to you, then say so. If its not, so throw it out. It seems to me that Xtians do exactly what Muslims do, they both have selective memories....

Ahhh, no wonder I prefer my own ability to reason, over all those
so called holy books... :)

R0bert - you are the sweetest conservative I have ever had the pleasure of communicating with (I have been following your commentary on Waleed's Violence against women) - not ready to post there - too many scars. Violence is wrong. And the vitriol expressed here is wrong.

So, Thank you - I deliberately posted that little quote from old Matthew, knowing full well the types of responses it would generate from the "my religion is better that yours" brigade.

Guess I was a little bit bored.

Yes the debate is about " working out how moderate muslims and moderate non-muslims can work together to make the world a better place for all of us."

I suggest 'getting to know your local Muslims'. I have been fortunate in that I have previously lived in a high Muslim population community and have also worked with many immigrants, when I worked with a government department.

I can happily state that the majority of Muslims (and immigrants in general) are positive about living in Australia and are earnest and sincere in wishing to make Australia their home.

I would not recommend my Muslim friends read some of the comments made on this forum - uncharitable and very unChristian are words that spring to mind.

Anyway, I digress, I encourage people to get to know their local Muslim population - you won't necessarily like every Muslim you meet. Just like anyone there is good and bad. However, I know that I have far less in common with someone like Philo, who rarely wastes an opportunity to indulge himself in personal invective - although we are probably from the same culture. I would have more in common with FH - who seeks to communicate and create a bridge of friendship with others.

This is why I continue to post here, in spite of the vitriol, in spite of the insults, because I believe that communication is the most important attribute of being human. If I can make someone think or even smile a little, then I have achieved a great deal.

LOL

Scout & Robert,

You are a breeze of fresh-air on these forums.
Interesting the call was to find 'moderate Aussie Muslims' and when few appeared to start a dialogue towards better and safer society, the struggle is now to find moderate non-Muslims.

Posters like you and Reason give me energy to persist with the non-Muslim Taliban as I call them. It is interesting to see every dialogue invite turns into the good old African missionaries forum.

BTW, I will pass on the tape-measure invite though Philo, Boaz and Kaktuz can knock themselves out.

Kaktuz,

1. None of the sites you mentioned talks about divine hadith for a simple reason: the Quran clearly states that prophets (including Mohamed PBUH) have no divinity. So their saying can't be divine but good spiritual teachings. Sounds like you are seeing it as: Mohamed PBUH hadith to Muslims is as divine as Jesus teachings to Christians. This is not correct: jesus for you = God.

2. Previousley I mentioned the Quran talks about good believers will have no fear on judgement day (2:61-69, 3, etc). Good believers defined as people with pure heart and do good deeds (70+ type of good deeds mentioned) the least is removing a stone from the road fearing it might hurt someone.

No Muslim is allowed to judge 'where you will end up': you know your intent and deeds and its between everyperson and God.

Anyway, stats shows that Islam will become the most popular religion by 2100+. You got the chinese shariah to worry about in your lifetime when a superpower can ban religions.

Fellow Human;

I see you return to your low grade dissembling but fail to answer my previous questions concerning your claims of the slaughter and disfigurement of children - with papal consent.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=3860

Please do elaborate, it will serve as an aid to dispelling some of my non-Muslim Taliban tendencies to know that you simply are not making stuff up.

In expectation...

Mr P.Pig,

Sorry just noticed your posting. I am astonished that you don’t know about Bosnia, here are few links. Not sure what was published in the local media at the time.

http://www3.cnn.com/WORLD/Bosnia/updates/9602/07/
http://www.un.org/icty/indictment/english/der-ii020703e.htm
http://www.irct.net/torture_journal/Torture-2.pdf

The Orthodox priest I was referring to featured on a Video tape aired on Foxnews, CNN, and either ABC or SBS around 3 months ago.

You misunderstood the papal reference, please re-read the thread.