Scout, I'm going to have to sit on the other side of the debate from you if the religion is about cats - sorry my friend. I grew up with cats, love their character etc but like native birds and small native mammals more. I guess thats my extremist right wing conservationist tendencies coming out ;).

Thanks for your contributions to this and other discussions, where I disagree with you I give real consideration to your viewpoint. What you are doing is worthwhile.

FH thanks as well, your thoughtful and reasoned responses continue to do yourself and your faith credit. It remains a pleasure to deal with you. Maybe in line with what is asked of moderate muslimsI should say that I am saddened and shamed by the intolerant attitudes expressed by many of my fellow agnostics and "conservatives". I join with Scout in hoping that they represent a vocal minority and that most Australians are much more into judging people as they find them.

Cheers
R0bert

FH, I read your blog and I think you miss the point of a modern secular democracy.
The separation of the powers, is critical for instance. Everyone needs to be accountable. Everyones rights need to be protected. Everyones freedoms need protecting too. Your idea of a council on top is exactly what Iran has. A bunch of Mullahs running the show, accountable to nobody and impossible to get rid of. A modern democracy is not perfect, but its the best way we know to ensure peoples rights and freedoms. Yes people can elect idiots, but they can also get rid of idiots just as easily, which is critical.

Your interpretation of Islam is simply your interpretation, nothing more. Bin Laden is absolutaly convinced that his interpretation is the correct one. Kohmeini who led Iran for years, made it clear that to him Islam had no problem using violence to reach its objectives. Millions of Muslims saw him as their leader and agreed with his interpretation. That is exactly the problem. When religion becomes political and sees its role as political,
like a whole way of how to live, what rights who has etc, as told in the Koran, you will land up with violence. History proves me correct.

The only way we will ever have any kind of peace on this planet is if there is a separation of religion and Govt. We need freedom of religion, but also freedom from religion. Govt needs to be based on our ability to reason, not on theology. FH needs the freedom to be allowed to express his interpretion of Islam, without being threatenend by radical interpretations who don't think he is a real Muslim. Just look around you how many Muslims have been killed in the name of different interpretations of Islam. Sunnis versus Shias, etc.

So lucky you, you live in a secular democracy with all its benefits. I will fight and argue for your right to believe whatever you want and to say it. I won't respect what you believe, but I will respect your right to say it.

R0bert - I must admit that I have issues with native fauna and always lock in my tortoiseshell cat - she also has 6 bells on her collar - I do what I can. Her company is of extreme importance to me. However I take your point - not right-wing at all - just humane and responsible. (sorry about being off topic, people)

F-H - my cat is multi-coloured, like our world.

Yabby - 100% agree with you - we need freedom from religion as much as we need freedom to pursue our beliefs. Would be beneficial if Ethics & Philosophy were as much a part of the curriculum as religion (if not more). Find it rather disturbing that ID should be promoted alongside science, yet basic 'art of living with others' neglected.

Only by effective communication, interaction and, yes, compromise can we hope not to be the wrong kind of anything. If we embrace difference rather than condemn it then the terrorists (and there are many types of these, starting with school bullies through to mad bombers) will have nothing to work on.

Hope I am making sense here.

LOL

Scout,
Just in case you hadn't realised you are already being governed by religious people. Ask the top 10 people in the Howard Government if they attend Church. Even Beasley and Rudd etc attend Christian Churches. We are a democracy so some who rule Australia could come from every groups you mention. I suggest you get real rather than talking and listening to cats.

Quote, "I do not want to be ruled by:
Christians
Jews
Hindus
Muslims
Buddhists
Wiccans
Pagans
Hobbits
Fairies
Elves are pretty cool though - but a bit up themselves.

However, I think my cat has a very cool take on life and would take instruction from her ......."

The seperation of Church and State is the removal of the State from the control over the Church and not the removal of people of faith from Government. The administration of secular affairs is not the exclusive domain of any religion, but for the benefit of the whole society. The value of the individual and the unity of the family should govern any secular administration, and this is founded in a religious / philosophical world view.

Philo, we all know that politics is controlled by the relgious, thats why we have wars and why we are getting these IR laws and terrorism laws. It is also why the gap between the rich and the poor is growing another exampkle of the god fearing and how lovuing ans caring they aren't. If you look at most western countries, you will note that they are run by religious politicans and have been since time began. Thats another reason why we have such a despotic world whose environment is collapsing, and civil disobediebnce and social unrest is growing around the world.

It is because the religious are naturally war, like as history shows us. In a way religion is good for the planet as it keeps a control on those that would destroy it. During history it is the religiously inspired conflicts that have kept humam population in check. The various religions take it in turns to destroy, last century it was the christians mostly, this time it looks like it will be the muslims turn. Hopefully you will all wipe yourselves out and let us all get on with living in harmony, something the religious certainly can't do.

That can be seen by their despotic history and how they currently debate, stupidly with no reality and just illusional words. Actually it is not a bad way to rid the planet of the unintellegent and lowly evolved religious.

Philo

"sense of humor

n : the trait of appreciating (and being able to express) the humorous"

I rest my case.