All terrorism is wrong. Any culture that promotes it as an option is wrong-headed. Any culture that uses terrorism is wrong-headed. We always hear about the Muslim terrorists and we always see the usual mob trying to tar the whole Muslim and "lefty" world with the same brush - but they are silent when it comes to the terror that the US reins down on the innocents in Iraq and elsewhere.

Why do uniforms, "western appearance", and rhetoric couched in concerns for democracy legitmise the "Christian" west's version of terrorism? Three-hundred thousand people have died in Iraq -that is terrifying. And now, despite all the rhetoric about democracy and freedom to justify that invasion, our own leaders are adopting similar laws that Saddam Hussien used to reign in rebels.
All people should be united against all violence. Think about it - isn't it just plain stupid to go to war or terrorise people when negotiation is the only way of resolving anything -in the end. Might is not right.
Why isn't there a concerted effort to portray warmongering and terrorist propagandists as the options of dumb and dumberer. Warfare - dumb option, terrorism - dumber option, doing nothing not an option, following Hussein's footsteps - the dumbest option. If propagandists can convince the "blank slates" that killing is an appropriate way - then kids can also be convinced that the positives of Teachings is proper. There is a better way.
Consider this. Christ had great power at his command. Why do you think he allowed the cops, the occuppiers of his land, the rabble rousers and soldiers to nail him to the cross - to treat him in the most humilating way? Why? The message is simple -you must resist. Resist what? The temptation to join the negative behaviour (militarism) of His persecutors. We are only human. Self defence is nature. However, terrorism is against innocents -it shows the wrongness of Utilitarianism (which the Liberals and Bush adopt in their thinking). The extreme absurdity of terrorism should send a message to the Liberals that Utilitarianism is wrong.
Go back.

Philo,

Mohamed (PBUH) was given a slave (male) who he set free and adopted and was given a female (Maria) who he freed and married. At his death, all he left was a mule and a shield. He left no money and worked until his last day.

There is no sex slaves in Islam or the Quran, 4:1-177 defines women rights and relations within the wedlock only. It is even detailed that a woman has the right to refuse to be dated secretly and adultery is one of the great sins.

Aaron,

Islam teachings on the right of self defence (mentioned in the Quran as part of the Mosaic law in chapter 2) have boundaries “ie fight those who fight you and do not transgress’. i.e. defending your country against an invading army which is what defence forces are for. There is no killing at random, killing innocents or those who are not fighting you. There is no pre-emption and taking an innocent life will be judged as if they killed whole mankind. The Quran does not discriminate who follows what religion and always addresses human as ‘believers’, ‘people’, ‘humans’ you won’t find a single verse addressing “muslims”.

Robert,

I think you are right on the competition thing. Boaz usually gets ‘deeply hurt’ when I state Jesus miracles in the Quran exceeds what was mentioned in all gospels combined. It is like he is Jesus spokesperson or have exclusivity over the man.

Boaz, do you support the church decision to ban the charitable free masons because they believe the Quran is God’s revelation as well as the Bible? Can you see now who hates who?

FH AND OTHER POSTERS

Can you explain the emotion of hate to me? I have never experienced it. I have experienced distate, disrespect, abhorrence, disdain - all horrible feelings. To hold hate against another (person or race) must be very crippling? I gather that it is a more intense feeling/emotion than unresolved anger?

Cheers
Kay

Aaron.
not acknowledging Christs existence is your choice. Its not offensive to 'me' as i emphasize that F.H.s claim that Christ was 'just' a prophet is not offensive to 'me'.
If I mentioned the Islamic view as being "offensive" to me, it was meant in the context of their claims that to satirize Mohamed is punished by death under Sharia law (depending on which school).

Captive slaves and the right of Muslim males to use them for sex as a 'possession' -I'm afraid F.H. has an 'interesting' spin on it, sadly its not the 'Islamic View' because as has been repeatedly demonstrated, Sharia scholars differ with him.

The same goes for 'aggression' and 'raids' If I had a dollar for each time F.H. has made this claim and then been refuted from the Sunna itself and life of the prophet, etc.. I could retire. Again F.H.'s spin is not typical of real Islam, I'm thinking he will soon be recognized as the 'New' prophet of Islam :) the 'kind friendly' version.

F.H. I gave a link to a scholarly opinion previously, from the Sydney Islamic forum..did you read it ? if yes, what is wrong or incorrect in terms of true Sharia law ? please tell tell.

AARON.. The point of the gospel of Christ, is this, "repent, believe, for the kingdom of God is at hand"... in Christ. He fulfills the Law, and only "in" Him, can its requirements be fulfilled.

Abraham was saved by ?......yes.. u know it.. 'faith'. It was counted as......'righteousness' in G-ds eyes.

Those who believe Jesus did not exist, you might be one, but I'm afraid that would be on a 'dogmatic' basis rather than a historical one.

I think I will start counting again.. the number of times the emotions of 'hate' are attibuted to me, and I invite others to count how many times I suggest others who disagree with me 'hate' me :)

Dear Aaron... I offer you these words.

nigas vehu naane velo yiftakh-piv kase latevakh yuval ukherakhel lifnei gozzeiha neelama velo yiftakh piv

F.H.

I know nothing about banning the Freemasons but it sounds like an administrative/organizational issue in a particular church to me..

Which Church ?
Where ?
When ?
more details pls. But there u go again..making it all about 'hate' :) sorrrrry... it might just remotely be about 'disagreement'.

I would not have anything to do with freemasons at an official level anyway. They are a secret society and not Christian. Though there may be professing Christians among them. I just don't know.

Aaron.... kulanu katson tainu ish ledarko paninu vaadonai hifgia bo et avon kulanu:

I hope and pray that one day you will recognize the Messiah. (same for F.H. and all fellow posters who are yet to know Him)

F.H. when you respond to seriously intended posts and links. please take the following approach.

So and so (the quoted authority) is wrong, (or right) because of

a)
b)
c)
and here are the conflicting sources/authorities.

Then we can reach past this cycle of 'we making claims/you giving us spin'.

Its totally pointless to say that Islam teaches 'non aggression' when you know jolly well about the umpteen 'raids' by Mohamed, and the very fact that captives can be taken from 'non Islamic' territory places that Army in an AGGRESSIVE posture/some one ELSE's territory.. or.. does 2+2 now equal 5 :)

Cheers all

Fellow_Human,
Most Australians want to see how Islamic nations deal with inequality and justice before they say Islam has our very same values, so we align them with our Australian moral values.

Your view of the Quran, may be noble and good but it is not influencing Islamic Nations in how they practice equality and justice for all. Do you believe the Taliban best demonstrated how true Islam is lived out? You continue to defend your view of the Qur'an, but no Islamic Nation lives by your interpretation of the Qur'an. Australia with all its failings has been influenced by Christian reformed theology, and demonstrates this in practise. That is why people prefer Australia over Syria or Parkistan deeply steeped in Islam.

Indonesia a Muslim Nation is also a point in focus; a corrupt, violent and deceptive society at the administrative level. The army shoots, steals and rapes native villagers. They don milisha dress and burn and murder Christians in remote areas; bouyed by the chant "Allah is great!", then change back into army uniform. A perfect example of following their prophet in the jihad struggle against polytheists, according to them.

You say I hate these practises of their religion, if abhorrence at these actions is hatred; then you can conclude I must hate them. God hates sin and injustice and a lying tongue, so we might have something in common.

If rancitas thinks he/she has the answers to terrorist by negotiation then I'm afraid fantacy land is a real place. Does rancitas imagine the supposed 300,000 she/he quotes of innocents killed in Iraq were killed by the USA army? Rancitas world view is just as naive to assume that infidels can reason intelligently with fanatical Muslims.

F_H when you can sincerely identify and denounce Islamic Clerics in Australia, like Ifran has done, and confront them on the true interpretation of the Qur'an, rather than try to convince B_D and I that Islam is a religion of tolerance and peace then we might be both working in the right direction.