philo , re abu bakr and the "two laws". he did say that this was a problem . he also sounded perplexed as to how this "problem" should or could be accomodated from his own perspective in australia .

he certainly sounded genuine and was very frank in what he said .
i suppose the question is whether a continued dialogue with him putting the views [equally frankly] of the majority of other australians will bring positive results and a lessening of tensions . i think it cannot do any harm .
i don't believe believe cutting down the chances of communication by ostracising abu bakr will do anything to help solve the "two laws problem" that it appears we have to face up to .

So who is more of a threat to our society? Islamic terrorists or the multicultists hellbent on increasing the islamic population?

Bring it down from within I tell ya.

What we have to fear is a bunch of psychopathic nutters who may be Islamic, Christian, Fascists, atheists or even rabid aunties; in fact any fruit cake who thinks that violence is the way to go towards achieving whatever goal it is they think they want. The use of religion to justify a cause is one of the most common methods to justify violence.

Davo please make a post when you have come down from the trees long enough to achieve a more extensive perspective of the very complex situation we have in this world.

As for Abu Bakr - he is one of the nutters other Muslims must wish never existed. He is one of the extremists of Islam who in no way is indicative of the average Muslim. To lay blame upon all of Islam because of his extremist position is very ignorant indeed.

To promote him as being representative of all muslims is to promote further hatred and of course playing into one of the goals of the current crop of terrorists.

Such a point of view is very naive and does nothing towards dealing with the reality of terrorism.

Well Ian, free thinking Muslims ,Christians ,Jews,Buddists, agnostics and aethiests must unite and march in our streets to demonstrate our solidarity in allowing all beliefs and philosophies freedom to exist without the fear of violence or coercion.

Unless we tackle this problem in it's infancy and get all sides to agree to a harmonic existence,it will be too late once violence ensues , our tribal instincts will come to the fore and it will become all out war.

Our Govts are both limp wristed and almost comatose.They are walking the tight rope of maximising votes without offending anyone.We need decisive action now that puts pressure on the fanatical Muslims to agree that their philosophy/beliefs is one of many that must tolerate and accept other religions or beliefs.What many of these fanatics are preaching is treason.It should be against the law.

If they can't agree to this then we just draw up special legislation requiring them to emigrate to the Muslim country of their choice.It would be in our interests to pay them to leave our country since the economic and social grief would far outweigh any input they would offer.

Just give them a choice of goal or paid emigration.

Arjay, I agree with what you are saying here: decent Australians of all religious and cultural backgrounds must stand together to defend solidarity, tolerance and secular democracy.

Treason should not go unpunished. In the case of advocates of terrorism who have citizenship of another country, I assume you are suggesting something like Blair’s proposals in Britain. This seems like a good move to me. People who migrate to Australia only to set themselves up violently against our society should not be made welcome.

If there turned out to be “home grown” offenders, however, then we would have to find a different approach. Expulsion would be pointless if they retained the right to return as citizens, and I could never advocate stripping Australian citizenship from anyone Australian born. That in itself would be totalitarian: we would be violating our own values.

As Australians we love diversity we can choose to adopt for ourselves. We love the foods of many cultures, but everone does not have the same taste. We love the diversity of clothing, except when persons cover their face, eyes and hands; because these are the physical forms of personal communication. We love the diversity of skin colour as we are not a single ethnic nation. We love the diversity of music and litrature and arts, as it inhances our world view.

Australians being free and independent of mind do not appreciate being controlled by outside authority, or bullied by unpalatable laws. We can and have accomodated Muslims since Australia was founded and we had no problem with them because their religion was their choice and they practised it privately. Recent Arabic cultures have arrived here that not only brought their rich culture but some have brought the tribal fanaticism of their exclusive religion. A religion that cannot assimilate into a nation of free choice, and diverse opinion. It is these particular persons we need to isolate, educate, or remove.