Well Said Philo (and thanx for your encouraging remarks at times :)

Kenny.. you have a serious problem, its called 'I have my (warped) opinion and I'm going to IMPOSE it on the Christian scriptures no matter what the contextual cost.

PHilo, on the gourd thing, that would be something :) I recall my first encounter with the Penan of Sarawak.. was at a Deacons school being run for the Kelabit people.. all dressed kinda western.. but suddenly these guys were in the pastors house.. lap laps.. bare bums bones, in the ears.. scratches allll over them, (straight from the jungle) real cool hair cuts, long ears... wow .. I've got a tremendous photo of them, a classic.

Our mission never tried to 'dress' the locals in 'our' western clothes. The reality is, that once they come in contact with the government (the malaysian) they tend to adopt such dress code by themselves because they don't want to be 'seen' to be 'backward' by those who spend the development dollar.

Kenny's biggest problem is bias and ignorance.. he doesn't seem to know much so makes up for it with noise :) bless u Kenny.. u make us look good mate *grin* (yes... I'm stirrrrrring you)

Philo, there is nothing quite so heartwarming, as to be with a number of different ethnic groups, but all united under the one Lord.
When I see people at Bethlehem, (on news or doco's) and hear them singing the same Choruses we sing here.. u realize how big is our family. Quite touching.

But..on TOPIC... I'd like to see the following: (for all schools)

-Introduction to early Australian history and ethos (poetry, prose, history, Art,Song) using it not just to show our heritage, but also to point out the weaknesses.
-Essays on particular characters.. (Dog on Tuckerbox etc, background to Waltzing Matilda)

-Civics/ Cultural manners taught
-etc

Kenny...I'm in a jovial mood 2night.. so I'll waste a post to bug you once more...
You watch SOUTHPARK at all ? If you do, you will know what happens to "Kenny" in each eposide.... (be afraid.. very afraid)....

I should address some of your accusations from previous posts I guess...

Religious fanatic -Moral codes reflected in the laws-Change cultures...
Guilty on all except the first :)
I want nothing more than my democratic right to see 'my' version of society reflected in our laws. Do I need to apologise for that ? Hardly.
Change Cultures.
well when people come of their own free will and desire to know Christ, and His teaching rubs off, and they release their slaves, giving them land etc.. my goodness, that is real cultural imperialism right ? its 'Christian fanaticism'... we canNOT have those pesky slaves released now CAN we ? :)

and of course, to liberate them from the fear of evil spirits who would have them bury twin babies alive in jars under their houses, with salt in their mouths to starve to death.. my GOODness... we must never see that kind of thing changed..

and specially the fear of bad omens which used to cause them to abandon their nearly ripe rice fields to the monkeys, and virtually starve for 6months of the year.... hmm we must STAMP OUT all this 'christianity' right ? :)

Monoculture ? Well my version is rather embracing, as Philo indicated. Many ethnicities, one Lord. But in terms of culture, I would promote the "JudaoChristian" background, and the Anglo/European cultural prevalence.(which includes a very big portion of our population)

boaz_david , i wonder if you think george bush and his administration represent good products of judao/christian teaching ?
do they read the same bible as the rest of us?? is their interpretation of the 10 commandments the same as yours ?
no wonder so many australians are cynical about our present "leaders."

Boaz, you make the odd delightful slip.

"I want nothing more than my democratic right to see 'my' version of society reflected in our laws."

I hate to break this to you, but no such democratic right exists. You have a right to vote for someone who reflects your values and your views, but that's all.

You have odd views too on the impact of ideas on society. You took Col Gradolf to task for his views that "as soon as we try to suppress unpalatable positions we are weakened", saying "Hmm.. so we are weakened by 'supressing the idea of National Socialism'"

The answer is yes, Boaz, we are substantially disadvantaged if we somehow pretend that National Socialism didn't exist, and don't try to understand how it came about, and why it infested an entire culture. Hiding away and pretending the world isn't the way the world is, and insisting instead that you are in sole possession of the "right" answers puts you firmly into the extremist, fundamentalist category.

Have a nice day.

Pericles....

350 words me boy.... its not easy to expand to the desired level on each point one makes..

Slip ? what the heck is the diff between voting for someone who stands for 'my' version of society and me wanting a democractic right to see my version.... etc ? I don't see the need for the pedantry I think people got what I was meaning.

On the supression of ideas.

I should have been more specific, and put it a different way. (knowing that the predators are lurking :)

My intention, however clumsily I expressed it, was that we do need to discuss..and make value jugdements on ideas. By looking at them, and seeing how they worked out in reality/history. But supress active support for such things(current anti terror laws are a case in point)

Hitlers misunderstanding and 'isogesis' on Jesus cleansing the temple is a classic. In such a case, we can point out how a misinterpretation of a text can have catastrophic results in the world.

I'm quite comfortable to have historic Christendom scrutinized in the same way. In fact I would applaud it.

But I would draw the line at people standing in the street advocating or writing in publications about mass murdering the remaining Jews etc based on Mein Kampf.
That kind of thing should be supressed or it could have serious consequences. I don't see how supressing such sentiments diminishes us at all, in fact it enhances us

Philo and B_D
Where to begin, I like most rational person find it very difficult talking to irrational people like your else. I’m sure you have difficult relating to me also.
Your questions , Vatican, Absolutism, Iran. As for Christian cultural celebrations a few points some churches/temples of many faiths are quite broad that’s what I’m arguing for i.e. multiculturalism. Many practitioners are so able to attend interfaith calibrations. I’m arguing that this is the benefit of multiculturalism would you like to see a monoculture at your cultural celebrations. I suggest you reread the topic. B_D has used this thread to try and tell everybody his faith is true and everybody else is wrong (sounds just like the Muslim chaps he is going on about) when he should do a bit a research into the person who wrote the topic. B_D’s wife would not be welcome here if it was up to that bloke.
Religion and culture are difficult things to separate so not only does local culture put flavor into imported religions but so do imported regions effect local culture. You brand of religion may not but Mel Gibson’s does. None of the major faiths systems are homogenous. I won’t even both with B_D issues because he is so far down loopy lane he can’t see the difference between fundamentalist Muslims and fundamentalist Christians. Part two later I did notice none of you played the game