Thanks, Trinity.

>>Judging Islam by Al Quaeda is like judging Roman Catholicism by the IRA<<

That's neat, Ian. Whether or not it will penetrate the consciousness of the Christian evangelists on this forum we shall see, but possibly not while holding our breath.

It is quite sad to see how easily - and how often - we take an extreme example and paint an entire picture from it. I think we learn it, or perhaps assimilate it, from the behaviour of the media. When you are exposed to news-as-entertainment twentyfour hours of the day, it can become second nature to sensationalize everything we hear, the instant we hear it.

I recall observing during the reporting of the first London bombing how the story changed daily. First it was suicide bombers. Then it was not - they had found some timing mechanisms in the debris. Then it was suicide again, with overseas suspects. The real story only emerged over time, but at each phase we were treated to "expert opinion" that supported, and expanded upon, each of the theories.

It's as if we have such boring lives underneath it all, that we have to create some faux thrills for ourselves every so often...

"Faux thrills" Pericles I think you have discovered the zeitgeist on Club Evangelical. Mousy and timid in their day to day lives; they emerge to spread panic, mayhem and disparagement on the internet.

They certainly appear to have plenty of time on their hands.

I wish I had the same amount of time to ferret through religious tomes, check my thesaurus and write to the full limit on this site the way they do. Imagine having nothing better to do than think up insults like "The naive left wing" must've taken all day for that one.

All this because they are offended by a moderate, inclusive, tolerant and compassionate point of view.

Does John Stone wear a cardy do you think?

Just returned to the forum after two days of work and caring for grandchildren. Since arriving home this afternoon had to organise a barbecue for local street kids and set up a sound system for the rap band - "Sounds of the Street". Seems I have plenty of time on my hands to do important things.

It seems Trinity has identified herslf with the "naive Left wing" by her taking offence at my comment that there are those who do not see any enemy of our free civilisation. So I also must assume she does not imbibe alcohol, does not frequent Western Night clubs, her body is completely covered and wears a veil, and she bows five times a day to Allah. For unless she does she is a ligitimate target of militant Islam. However her very name is cursed by Allah.

ABU BAKR: "I am telling you that my religion doesn't tolerate other religion. It doesn't tolerate. The only one law which needs to spread - it can be here or anywhere else - has to be Islam."
"According to my religion, jihad is part of my religion." "Osama bin Laden is a great man." "I would be betraying my religion if I told students not to train in terrorist camps." "There are two laws - Australian law and Islamic law....

One nation one culture in 2040 AD.
..there are 23million Muslims in Europe, about 5 per cent of the total population. This figure has more than doubled in three decades and the growth rate is accelerating. Non-Muslim Europeans, on the other hand, are declining absolutely in numbers.

Meanwhile, the Middle East and North Africa have the second highest fertility rate in the world and Europe the lowest. Notwithstanding tougher rules on immigration, something like one million to 1.5 million new immigrants come to Europe legally and illegally each year. Probably most are from the Middle East and North Africa, mostly Muslim.

Similarly, within Europe the Muslim populations are young and just about to enter their child-bearing years. One-third of France's five million Muslims are under 20, one-third of Germany's four million Muslims are under 18 and one-third of Britain's 1.6 million Muslims are under 15. So while France's Muslims, for example, are only 8 per cent of the population, they are a much higher percentage of the cohort about to enter child-bearing years. Most importantly, the Muslim birthrate in Europe is more than three times the non-Muslim birthrate. By 2015, Europe's Muslim population will at least double while its non-Muslim population will decline by at least 3.5per cent. If Turkey joins the EU, these trends get another big kick along

Interesting article in The Age, extracts follow
http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/dinkydi-aussie-muslims/2005/08/03/1122748694946.html

Dinky-di Aussie Muslims Shepparton by Geofff Strong

About a decade ago, this community of more than 50,000 in the Goulburn Valley began to be settled by Arab migrants, many of them from Iraq, refugees from the first Gulf War and followers of the Shiite strand of Islam.

Neo-conservatives like to blame teachers for most social ills, but really they are people who know the importance of social cohesion. I suspect the sight of girls wearing the hijab grates on many Australians teachers, but here the primary schools have created a sense of inclusiveness by designing hijabs in the school colours.

Iraqis have bought houses and started businesses. One of them who has opened a kebab shop has gained local esteem by providing free meals to the homeless. Charity is, after all, one of the five pillars of Islam.

A few weeks ago I was interviewing students at King Khalid Islamic College in Coburg and noted they referred to themselves as "Australian Muslims", but it wasn't until later I realised what this meant. Monash University academic Dr Shahram Akbarzadeh said new distinct forms of Islam are emerging. "In Australia, for example, over the last 20 years a different Islamic identity has been evolving where it is easy to be a devout Muslim and loyal to Australia. One of the thinkers behind this has been (the Sydney-based mufti) Sheikh Taj al-Din al-Hilali."

He said that while all Muslims wanted the ideal of sharia law, what people such as Hilali had recognised was that most of the important elements of sharia such as freedom to practise Islam, basic safety and freedom from persecution and discrimination were already in place in the Australian legal system. He said that Australian Muslims had more freedoms and were closer to the sharia ideal than in Islamic states such as Egypt and Pakistan.

Geoff Strong is a staff writer.