Alchemist,
I recognise your extremist hatred and religious vilification of Christians and missions done by the Churches among native people. Your blinked religious hatred colours your view of the world. Christian missionaries did not displace native peoples from their lands or change their diet. It was land holders with leasees and freeholds grants by Governments that pushed them out. Missionaries concerned for their displacement decided to help them, educate them to assist them to enter the new society encroaching upon them. Landholders used them to provide cheap labor because they were good stockmen and fed them corned beef, damper, and tea and introduced them to alcohol. It was their displacement by the emergence of a modern world that disrupted them from their traditional hunting and gathering grounds was the problem.

I assume you do not believe Koori's or for that matter any native people should have entered into the 21st century. Your dream world has been shattered; the Japanese would have wiped them out 60 years ago, so I suggest you get real. Live with the facts as they now exist and improve upon them.

lisamarie - you have your head buried deep in the sand.

You think that because of the terrorist bombings in London that I think every Muslim is a terrorist and I am as 'ignorant as the US' - I am not that stupid - I am referring to issues about our society which have existed for 15 years - I am not talking about terrorism at all.

You have not been touched by this and I realise you will never know what it is like to suffer racism in your own country - the Australians living in Western Sydney in suburbs like Lakemba, Punchbowl, Bankstown know what it is like - up there in the central coast 'ivory tower' you have absolute no idea, and I don’t expect you to.

-Australian girls are gang raped, not for 'pleasure' or for 'power' as in common in rape, but because they are Australian and are hated. There has been a spate of such attacks.

-There is a special police task force working in the Western suburbs, Task Force Gain, set up to fight "Lebanese gangs" - the NSW Police use this description.

-There has been a culture of 'hand guns' and 'drive by shootings' introduced into Sydney by Lebanese - the drive by shooting on the Lakemba Police Station; the double murder drive by shooting in the 'Rocks' Sydney.

-NSW Police are shot at whenever they drive down Talopea St. Punchbowl - it is documented and as been reported in the press.

-Every day in the Daily Telegraph there will be some report where the Police are seeking men "of middle eastern appearance", i.e. Lebanese.

The Islamic culture does not assimilate into Australian society and it is Lebanese youths who are not devout Muslims at all and would have nothing to do with terrorism - it is not the issue.

This is happening, and it has happened to everyone I know - so don’t tell me form your 'ivory tower' that I am ignorant and reacting to terrorism cause I have experienced this first hand.

GZ Tan,
OK, to expand on my point: “you said” (and my comparison):

“May the truth set us free.” – (I most certainly agree.)

”o It is wise to spin off another established religion.” – (That is what Christianity is – a spin-off from Judaism.)

”o Make sure to start preaching to the poor and simple-minded…” – (That is what Jesus did. Taught to the poor, disenfranchised – the bulk of his followers. Note I said not all but the bulk.)

”o To ensure success, make sure your theology is sweetened and bias in favour of man...” – (I think there would be a lot of people who would agree that the Christian church is very patriarchal and men-centric.)

”o You will get sympathetic hearing by saying nice thing about children…” – (again, something that Jesus did quite a bit.)

”o Let man be the master in a marriage and decree that the primary duty of women is to breed…” – (Not in so many words but a look at the history of the Christian church, which certainly put women in a subservient role.)

“o Make a requirement that believers are to spread the religion.” – (Sounds very evangelical and missionary to me.)

”o Make confident claims that you have obtained words directly from god…” – (Again, Jesus claims as do some other Christian representatives – does Pope come to mind?)

“There is NO god called Allah and Mohammad is only a messenger of his own imagination” – (Allah is the Christian God. And the Muslims even recognise Jesus as a prophet. How strange you argue against Islam but don’t know this?)

I won’t bother addressing your claim regarding my religious understanding – that was a pointless comment on your part.

GZ, you missed the point of my post – I simply was pointing out that a good majority of the reasons you claim Islam is wrong, ironically are reasons equally applicable to Christianity. To paraphrase, people in glass houses should not throw stones…

GZ, your language suggests you’re from another country? At any rate, welcome and good fortune.

BD,
Not having a technical knowledge of the vilification laws in Victoria (or anywhere else), I would be horrified to see it so. If so, I’m disappointed in the legislators. But please, no discourse on the recent Victorian events – that’s a different topic.

Before I continue, I wanted to say that your response on this occasion was the first time I detected no (or very little) ‘attitude’. Very polite this time and I appreciate that.

Now, to respond.

I appreciate your position – that you are ‘shining the light’. However, I think you fail to appreciate that your light is not that of others. In fact, other’s light (mine included) does not agree with yours. My somewhat varied experience with religion is that faith is a personal journey and contains a considerable amount of personal interpretation. I think this can be validated due to the plethora of versions of Christianity. I also believe the same can be said for Islam – again, the variety of responses to incidents about the world, indeed the variety of living conditions for ‘infidels’ in Islamic countries about the world supports this view.

I also appreciate that you have lived under trying conditions in an Islamic country. These experiences will of course impress on your view. However, as the world of some 3 billion Muslims are not all strapping on bombs or ‘persecuting infidels’, I think it a great leap to claim that the religion is dangerous. I agree that currently, there appears to be a very strict interpretation of Islam prevalent in the world. In past days, Christianity was similarly operating. To apply a previous argument of yours (applied to Christianity’s history), the current nature of Islam can be directly attributed to extremist leaders looking to buy personal power and manipulate congregations.

I think Ifran and Ash would agree that Islam can exist peacefully in a free/democratic society, if led by moderates, as Christianity is (in the majority at any rate) today.

Having said this, I do not intend to ‘attack’ you…

I’ve run out of words and will continue in due course.

Here's my impression of lisamaree...

She typifies a simplistic individual who can quite conveniently excuses herself of inadequacy, both intellectually and linguistically, so that it then makes it kind of alright for her to make naive generalisation on the one hand and then on the other indulges in a bit of self-righteousness through her rebukes of others for comments that she, by her inadequate logic, considers are hateful generalisation.

I wouldn't waste my time on her comments... She probably has a Lebanese Muslim boyfriend anyway.

Except to say if all Aussies are as 'tolerant', 'understanding', 'accepting' and as NAIVE as her, then Australia is doomed.

What good is a good heart with only half a brain ?

Hi Reason,

You mentioned only 7 points. Had I shot my foot and discredited Christianity even before discrediting Islam?

o (Christianity..spin-off..) No, Jesus didn't start a 'religion'. Didn't have to because he is God himself. Christianity is a continuation of Judaism, not spin-off. Mohammad preached distinctly different theology, yet leverage off both when it suited him. There is a big difference between claiming you're God as opposed to you preaching about another pathway to God.

o (..Jesus did. Taught to the poor...) You missed my point about taking advantage of simple-mindedness, with a bad twist. In any case Jesus preached to anyone, everyone.

o (...Christian church...men-centric.) Doesn't that describe your workplace too? Again you made a poor comparison. Rather I suspect the opposite- Christianity is not very 'successful' at all especially when Christians like you tend to throw stones at churches.

o (...saying nice thing about children...) Again you missed the ethos in my argument. In Islam children are pragmatic advantages whereas Jesus loves children. Seen that picture of Muslim children carrying arms?

o (...Christian church...women...subservient role.) Easy to criticise the church, isn't it? You are in fact the church of Christ. So ask yourself whether Jesus tells you to regard women the way Islam does. I think you make a dreadful comparison.

o (..evangelical and missionary) Provided you believe Jesus preached conquer,plunder, convert by force, and have a notion of destroying everything non-Christian.

o (..Jesus claims as do some other...) Yes Jesus claimed to be the God. Mohammad found a religion but did not claim to be God. Big difference.

o (Allah is the Christian God...) How strange that coming from a Christian like yourself...Are you making a profoundly logical statement? You truly do not know what you believe in.

Nice try, but you obviously missed my points, badly, not due to brevity either. To you Islam and Christianity are the same.

Re your glasshouse ethos - I rather hope there are more wise people who would stand up and be challenged. Afterall who can count on someone who is quite muddled in his belief.

Thanks for kind words