GZ

im an athiest, not keen on any god stuff, thing is tho its the xtians who will let me freely walk down the main road in my jesus sucks t shirt (not that they would love that and not that'd id bother) its the Islamists who wont let me have that freedom.

can you imagine the uproar LOL

Good on you and the other xtians here as well as all the people supporting our freedom and cultural pride in the west.

Dear GZ and Thor,
OK you may think me naive, disrespectful, etc etc. I don't mind you thinking that. But it doesn't mean my opinions aren't valid. I think I represent the "norm", if I can call it that, ie, I would have similar values and lifestyle to that of most people from western ("christian") cultures. I am uni educated. I work full-time and socialise on the weekends. I have many acquaintances and a handful of real friends. I do not spend a lot of time on the internet. I came to this forum because I'm interested in what's going on. I keep abreast of current affairs, but I am definitely not an expert like you. I believe that the knowledge and education that you have is a gift that should be chanelled positively. What's the point in being so smart if you only have your own singular perspectives? I have travelled o/s to muslim countries, altho briefly, but long enuff to be shocked and horrified at their treatment of women. However I was treated with respect for my different beliefs and culture. And Thor, I live in Sydney and have seen conflict of Islamic culture in Australian society (both ways). All I am saying is if we all begin on the premise of respect, it may be a small step in the right direction.

Lisa... yes.. well said..

We need the freedom to vent our spleens but also, and more importantly, we should be looking at the issue of policy based approaches to solving many of these complex social issues.

If we don't we will end up like the USA where an illegal immigrant who was assaulted by a rancher protecting his property, ended up being given the Ranchers RANCH.. ! -by a weird set of circumstances.
When assylum seekers can illegally come here and then SUE our government, its time for radical re-assessment of our legal system.

GZ and THOR (and Benjamin and others) may have had similar or worse experiences than myself in their encounters with Islam. They maybe more concerned that people are not aware of the true nature of this supposedly peaceful faith.
I think once people (like yourself) can interact on these issues with a fully informed mind, they will probably then back off a bit, and take more of a 'policy' direction. I could be wrong, but thats my sense of things.

So, don't take any comeback at yourself too personally ok :)
Maybe its a flag to do some digging. If you look at Peter Farris QC web blog and see his reading list, it is quite comprehensive, though I'd like to see more from Islamic sources in it. (there are some very impassioned contributors to that blog, so be warned)

I guess we tend to 'shout' our views out of fear that 'no one is awake up to all this'. Hopefully we can all become more aware, informed and motivated to re-capture our own culture, perhaps extend it to be a bit more inclusive, yet also recognize dangers. S.W.A.T. analysis :) if you will, for the business minded.

I find the diversity of opinion very inriching. It always challenges me, and motivates me to learn more.

Blessings to all

Dear lisamaree,

See-not, hear-not and speak-not, if this vaguely tells you about 'respect', then I, as an Asian should be the one lecturing you.

Not at all surprised that you've enjoyed good hospitality in Islamic countries...people went out of their way...opportunity to impress. Perhaps an entire village may rejoice if you'd just become one of them.

Ever suggested something as innocent as "Mohammad was only a man" to your Muslim hosts, and sensed how the cordial atmosphere suddenly became tense? Well, a NZ fella did said "your god is not true" to his Muslim host overseas and he was jailed for that. So much for friendship. Had I said the same thing to Muslims in my hometown, I won't be around today. As for a sweet young western girl like you, perhaps all you'd get is a gentle rebuke about that respect thingy.

Perhaps you think that NZ fella deserved what he got for being disrespectful. But the point is, that friendliness you have experienced, may in fact be only waffer thin, partly built on that notion of respect: see-not, hear-not and speak-not. It is untested, and in fact, cannot be tested- It breaks.

So leave your western conscience behind and enjoy your mid-east exotic experience...next stop Iran...back via Indonesia, and ignore the cries of victims of Islamic radicals in Muluku and Poso. Just be careful with your baggage.

It's not respect that will move us away from the ever increasing danger of civilisation clash. What is needed is brave direct confrontation of the evil. Didn't you watch ABC Lateline yesterday? Tony Jones interviewed Irshad Manji, the author of "The Trouble with Islam". She bravely confronted the issue headon- Islam needs reformation!!

Irshad's getting death-threats for that stance. Here's a poetic one:

Roses are Red
Her Blood is redder
God wants her DEAD
And we promise Him We’ll get her

I have respect for 'Muslims', one likes Irshad. But 'respect' will NOT save us from Islam. There has to be a lot more like her for the evil of Islam to be exposed, removed and painted over by Muslims THEMSELVES.

RELIGIOUS REALITY

Televangelist Calls for Chavez' Death
By Associated Press

VIRGINIA BEACH, Va. - Religious broadcaster Pat Robertson suggested on-air that American operatives assassinate Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez to stop his country from becoming "a launching pad for communist infiltration and Muslim extremism."
"We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability," Robertson said Monday on the Christian Broadcast Network's "The 700 Club."
"We don't need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator," he continued. "It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with."
Chavez has emerged as one of the most outspoken critics of President Bush, accusing the United States of conspiring to topple his government and possibly backing plots to assassinate him. U.S. officials have called the accusations ridiculous.
"You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it," Robertson said. "It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war ... and I don't think any oil shipments will stop."
Robertson, 75, founder of the Christian Coalition of America and a former presidential candidate, accused the United States of failing to act when Chavez was briefly overthrown in 2002.
Electronic pages and a message to a Robertson spokeswoman were not immediately returned Monday evening.
Venezuela is the fifth largest oil exporter and a major supplier of oil to the United States. The CIA estimates that U.S. markets absorb almost 59 percent of Venezuela's total exports.
Venezuela's government has demanded in the past that the United States crack down on Cuban and Venezuelan "terrorists" in Florida who they say are conspiring against Chavez.
Robertson has made controversial statements in the past. In October 2003, he suggested that the State Department be blown up with a nuclear device. He has also said that feminism encourages women to "kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians."

I wonder how many of you have read the article in the current issue of The Economist, comparing the present hysteria over world terrorism with the similar experiences with "anarchists" at the end of the nineteenth century?

http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=4292760

It might just help put two things into perspective. One, terrorism is a permanent part of the world we live in, and two, the actual number of terrorists who are prepared to die for their beliefs constitute a very small percentage of the group with which they claim affiliation.

What appears to be consistent across the centuries is the reaction of the various governments, and the lack of impact of the measures that they took.