Ash,
your post to me was valuable ! It showed the very point I was attempting to make. The 'historial practice' of Christianity by very UN-Christian people (Spanish, Crusades (some aspects only) wars between protestants and Catholics in Eurpope, the later Cromwell years,(not the earlier))

Hence my appeal to SCRIPTURE, our source for evaluating all human behavior which is purported to be in the name of Christ. We cannot judge 'the Gospel' by the actions of any Tom Dick or Harry who happens to claim to be Christian, apart from comparing those actions with the foundation they claim to live by. In the case of Islam, we have to do the same. But because of the different historical dimensions of that faith, I extend my evaluationof Islam to the life of the prophet, and his companions, and the full Sunna.

Nevertheless, I've said more than enough about that, I'd rather hold Christ up as our ulimate example, our Savior, Redeemer and Friend.
It is he who renews our minds, transforms our hearts, controls our stubborn wills, and reminds us when we are going too far :), and fills us with the desire to reachout in deep human affection to those who as yet don't know Him.
Forgive me for anything I've said which is from 'me' rather than from Him. (and knowing 'myself', that might be quite a bit)

how can you find someone unacceptable simply based on the argument that their religious beliefs are flawed? ive not met many muslim people who go around spruiking on about their religion, why it is the best, why you should convert, why you're an infidel if you dont etc etc.

these preconceived notions about muslim people are a barrier to accepting them as part of our communities and to making them feel welcome in our communities. as human beings they actively contribute back to society and their own community's, they work, they consume, they pay taxes like most ordinary australians, especially those who've immigrated here.

not all muslim people enact their beliefs in the same way, as with christians or jews or other faiths.

there are undesireables in every society.

B-D just doesn't seem to be able to comprehend the simple point that, to those of us who are not religious, the actions and rantings of fundamentalist and evangelist Christians are every bit as distasteful as those of fundamentalist Muslims.

Read Joshua, Chapter 8. "Ai destroyed" (In the Old Testament for those unfamiliar with the scriptures).

Who said, "Who is not for me is against me"?

There are hundreds of such paradoxes in the Gospel, The Old and New Testament.

Dear Boaz,

I understand the point you have been trying to make all along: Cherri picking throughout history.

You seem to bypass that prophet Mohamed from the beginning of preaching his message and for 13 years had few followers surviving persecution and torture. Escaping from city to city, asking for mercy only to be betrayed over and over again and any of his followers tortured to death (including women).

You are stuck on why God ordered them to defend their existence (please refer to number ratios in your so called “muslims early wars” where ratios was 1:11, 1:9). Even when he went back to Mecca, he released 6000 prisoners ‘”you are free to do as you will” which never happened in wars until last century.

You also ‘overlooked’ those Muslims protected Christian holy places in Palestine and Egypt throughout the centuries from the Bizantine all the way through till the Nazis until last century (check E.Britannica last century the Palestine Brigade WW 2 consisted of Muslims, Christians and Jews).

You overlook all that, yet you are comfy with God ordering David in the bible with pre-emption on Goliath. Or even God ‘killing every first born of the Egyptians’ until the pharaoh lets the jews go.

Nobody can claim to understand God’s wisdom with different prophets and messengers: why Abraham was God’s favourite or why did He talk to Moses or why Solomon was able to talk to animals or rule non-humans. Just stick with your own belief and don’t throw stones on others..

Regards and respect to you and your beliefs,

AK

David
“I am using the same available evidence from the same types of sources for both Islam and Christianity. If you dont work with those sources, you work with nothing other than your imagination”

No, you are interpreting the available evidence to suit your needs. Again, you see your faith and biased books as ‘raw data’. So does Islam! So do the Buddhists! And perhaps even the Earth-Goddess believers! Davis, please, try to look beyond your faith and simply accept that your interpretations/perceptions are your own, that’s all. Not a universal truth – like gravity.

As to “Its not 'my way or the highway', its 'Christs way, or Islams way'”, well that’s your fear. I have never felt that the Islamic faith threatened me or expected me to change my way of thinking – which is more than I can say for Christianity. You just don’t seem to want to let anyone live differently to you without claiming they are wrong. Is it that scary to think that perhaps you are?

As to your claim of a moral high ground over Islam, blaming ‘radical’ Christians for the previous wrong-doings. So, when does the church get it right? Now? With millions dying of AIDS in Africa because the church educates them wrongly? OR when the church ignores the slaughtering in Rwanda? During WW2? Or do we blame inaction on radicals? And this includes the pope!

You interpret for your own ends. I have read enough history to see that there is much to both modes of thinking. You can’t accept that even with faith, there is always room to accept another’s thinking. As has been said in these threads, there aren’t any Muslims going around claiming a superior faith. If someone lives a good life – who’s to really care? Only those who want the comfort of ‘knowing’ they are right.

And you never did answer my question – does Ghandi get saved? He certainly wasn’t a Christian. But who would deny he was a very good man?

Scrabble anyone? It’s much less contentious!