David, perhaps the young people you refer to cannot make a free choice without having experienced both types of family.

I know that I was so relieved when my parents divorced and the tension level in the house dropped and the awful angry whisperings during the night stopped, even though we had to move to a smaller house. We were happy to see dad at his place.

I can also testify to the pain it caused people who had to falsely admit to adultery so they could obtain that divorce.

As you say David the 'religious right' is not a monotheistic? group and you do not speak for them all. Some would be keen to see evolution even as a theory not be taught in schools. One can only be sweeping and general in a discussion like this.

How am I imposing my view about eggs and babies on you? I am happy for you to have your view and any egg you fertilise is certainly a conceived child, but my fertilized egg is just that. Okay?

The way legislation stands you can have your view and so can I. You do not have to have an abortion. Changing it would lead to you imposing your view on me, wouldn't it? Cos I couldn't have one.

HOWARD IS USING the Christians.... duh :)
funny, I could never have worked that out myself... of course he is, but on the other hand, he is also much closer in critical areas to what 'we' would prefer to see in control, that the whacko left-of-marx Maddox'es and company. So, perhaps we are also using him ?

I have a nagging feeling this is actually democracy.

MOLLY. U have a point there, as things stand, ur right, to change the law and make abortion illegal, would be imposing my view on you. I'll give that some further thought. I guess it boils down to what is the message we want our government to sent to the community as socially and morally important. I guess to allow murder for some would not be acceptable. (Im not being sarcastic there, I'm thinking it through on the run) Yep, I think thats what it comes down to, the morality of the issue. We either believe a conceived child is that, or we believe in some lesser view based on values more of the 'make-it-up-as-u-go'. Again, not being facecious. Your post was quite warm hearted :) appreciated.

Without doubt its a difficult problem this. I mean, we all have views on various matters, and I think its most difficult to avoid some of us imposing or having others imposing on us in some things.

THE LEFT ... having impact ? yes, a worry, if only they had an actual value system which was enduring and valid and did not fall apart when scrutinized.

XENA Christians are not as stupid as u think :) Howard 'amoral' ? hardly. 'Flexible' yes :) and cunning, and astute, and possibly occasionaly dishonest or close to it on some things. Kim is gold, Labor is bankrupt. Howard and the Libs are also on the wrong track, Greens- dangerous, Democrats- plain stupid, Families First, yet to be tested, Hmm I guess that just leaves the Kingdom of God in our hearts, working for the good of all as we see it.

Neither the Big Bang, nor 6 day Creation, should be taught as fact or the "most legitimate" form of science in state schools. You can't prove either without faith.

David Surely the message can be sent to the community that abortion is not a good thing to do without making it illegal and bringing back dodgy backyard abortions. Illegality never stopped women in the past, why do you think it will now?

There will always be circumstances in which the living (children and other adults) are more important than a fertilized egg which may become a life. I speak from experience here and that I guess is why I am so sure that women need to be able to 'murder' their babies sometimes.

If you insist on using 'murder' to describe the abortion of a fertilied egg or a collection of cells that could not live without being attached to a women's body, then I can face that.

But I got to say c'mon, it is a bit weak on your part. Surely there is a difference between a life that is extant and would cause suffering to others if it ceased to exist and a life that nobody but the mother and God would know about if it was murdered.

You know it is the living who suffer when a real child (one who was alive for a number of years) dies - not the child - again I speak from experience. There is a big difference between the two types of lives - one inside the womb, the other in the world.

I do not agree with your black and white view. Life is more complex than that. If you want to see that my view is 'lesser' then I can only assure you that I try not to see your view as 'lesser'.

I simply cannot accept such an easy view of something so complex and mysterious.

OrderInChaos (April 9th)

You are spot on. The collaspse of One Nation and the Democrats enabled Howard to get his 2004 result and gain a majority in the Senate. I guess that's the result of coniving to place a woman in prison for political reasons, and manipulation of the media. Howard is a lying, over-taxing, anti-Australian (free trade, and with $422 billion of foreign debt), war-mongering, manipulative leader, who Australian voters have allowed to now comprehensively dictate to us after July 1st. I can say this as a christian woman, someone who critices my own 'christian right' (of which I am a part)for their unjustified and overwhelming support of Howard at this time. The christian vote will get stronger in this country as 68% (according to 2002 census) of Australians still indentify with the christian faith in some manner. However their overwhelming support of Howard is not right (I believe)in the eyes of Christ.

Oh yes, and federal labor's inability to be an effective opposition is allowing Howard to do whatever he wants. Pathetic.