One thing that has got lost in these posts is the point that Maddox (and later Mooney) makes about the influence of the right wing think tanks such as the Centre for Independent Studies. In this context Kevin Andrew's piece in Onlineopinion 27.4.05 is revealing in that he draws heavily on the Hughes and Warin paper from the CIS mentioned in this review but does not cite that as a reference. Why not one wonders? Who is funding the right wing think tanks who are driving government policy? Is it not time we the public had access to this information?

Some sections of the gay community definitely overplay their hand, but I don't judge all gays by the behaviour of an extremely visible few. Most gay people are like most straight people, and as some alluded earlier, there is a fair number of gay Christians as well. I've come to know a few since getting to uni, and they are amazing people who have been real friends to me at times when I've needed them.

I was an enthusiastic Christian in my childhood and youth, attending a church which is now a strong supporter of the Family First movement. I grew up in a bubble basically. However, I ended up disgusted by the hypocrisy of its followers. For example, pastors who use scriptures about "robbing God" to guilt people into giving money so they can buy their Ferraris and fund legal cases against anyone who suggests anyone in their church is a sexual abuser of children. They say gay people are abominable, yet they tolerate child abuse as "an honest mistake" (I've actually heard those words used more than once). I as a 15-year-old was told that I was to blame for some 40+ psycho who nearly destroyed my family - one who was introduced to us by the church, no less - because if I'd "had more faith" this person would never have come after me. We were thought of as sinful and cut off from the church for this.

In reading the Bible years after I left, I learned that the way I'd been taught the Bible was very disjointed, designed to promote the church's beliefs rather than to promote the word of God. While I have BIG problems with the notion of this book, decided on by a council of men allegedly guided by God, being the "Word of God", I have found a lot of wisdom in it, particularly in the words and actions of Jesus, and believe that his true message was one of generosity of spirit, tolerance and of helping your fellow man - one which I have tried to follow myself.

Order
very honest and open. Good on you !
Yours is not an isolated experience, (and fortunately it is not the typical christian experience)

and it is one reason why I myself went straight to the Bible when God began grabbing hold of my life in my early/mid 20s. I saw all the same things as you, my former sunday school teacher would go home and indulge in some domestic violence against his poor wife !

But the one thing I found in all of this, was JESUS has no connection with wierd behavior by so called Christians. I've seen crazy things happen, and if I shared some of them with you I'm sure ur ears would tingle. But I knew deep inside all along, that being Christian is about my relationship with Christ and that Christ is trustworthy and unfailing and wonderful, as God in the flesh no less. If you look, you WILL find those with whom you can have confident and fulfilling fellowship.

I was trying to put a handle on your former tradition (denomination) and it sounded either like Jehovah's witnesses or Charistmatics.
In the Charo's I've seen some of what you described, but I've also found nuggets of spiritual gold.

I want to encourage you to re-think your current position, perhaps read some background to the various councils which seem to trouble you confidence in scripture, and most of all, seek Jesus.

Order-In Chaos

I like your piece of writing. There's nothing wrong with the book (bible), only the people who interpret it, and read it. No one's perfect, except Jesus, and some of the issues you raised, especially regarding sexual abuse, and gays, are really valid comments. Jesus abhorred people who sexually abuse others, especially children; he related the seriousness of it to being better for that person if a rock is slung around their neck and thrown into a river. "Sinning" against children is very evil, a very serious crime in the "eyes of Christ". A christian is primarily called to two things; loving God, and loving neighbour. In regards to gay people, alot of christians hate rather than love. This is what I call, "conditional love." Their premise appears to be, "if you change, then I'll love you." This is not how Jesus works. He says, my child I love you, I love you, I love you, and I will never leave you. Blessings.
Teresa