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Cheers dears

David You are the type of Christian who gives Christianity a bad name. You use your religion as a weapon against people in the service of your own prejudices and ideology.

Yes Xena, "dear" :) the issues you raised are of concern to me, if Labor was running the country.

I dont mention Jesus to 'win' an argument, I 'point' to Christ.

You seem to be of the view that 'new thinking' or 'new systems' will bring us some kind of social utopia :) -it wont. My point is that only renewed PEOPLE will. This is not an 'argument' it is a spiritual fact. But until you come into that experience, it's just 'my opinion' and I accept that. But given that this is 'on line OPINION' :) I think I'm on steady ground there.

I don't think simply mentioning Christ will do anything, but a relationship with Him will do everything. Xena, one of the sad lots of being a Christian is that we at times encounter those who happen to disagree with us, and, those who support. John the baptist came not eating or drinking and was described "He has a demon" ... Jesus came eating, and drinking, and was described as a 'glutton and a drunkard' so, its a no win situation. People will describe others in terms of their vested interest.

I prefer not to see this forum as a platform for either Labor or Liberal, but for people to explore new territory. Politically I currnetly favor Families First, having read up on some of their policies. I have no time for Greens or Democrats. I do have time for 'some' liberal and 'some' labor policies. I'm currently urging the libs and the FF mobs to 'green up' their own policies more.

So, what am I trying to 'win' here ? I hope its a better Australia.
And for me that does not include a 'gayer' or 'Abortive' or more 'liberal' country. So be it. I have a foundation and I'm sticking to it.

Xena, it appears to me that you are 'issues' centred, rather than 'principle' centred. Your principles such as they are, seem to relfect trendy atheistic philosophical views which can change with the next 'hot shot' popularist Philosopher. (correct me if I'm wrong there)

Thank you Molly, perfection is something I can never lay claim to and your continued rebukes are a reminder of this.

Would u care to show me an example of "my prejudice" which is not consistent with the teaching or example of Christ and the Apostles ?

If u can, I'll do my best to reflect on your words and seek to prayerfully correct my bad example.

blessings

David your atttiude toward the asylum seekers, is not consistent with the idea of Christ that most of us have. You maintain the attitude that this country would be better off without them and this is not a 'fact' at all unless you fear their religion will taint our culture. I am quite sure that it is your prejudice that drives this attitude, not your readings of the Scripture.

It is just as much factual to see them as the most enterprising and intelligent of their culture, who got off their arses and helped themselves (so that God would help them) to a better life and who would benefit our culture is the same way as other refugees with other religions (Itallian Catholics eg) benefited our culture when they came here.

New Zealand has found that their Tampa people are exemplary citizens.

You will not convince me by quoting any passages from the bible because I am convinced that I also understand Christ's message through my readings of other Christian commentators. I am not ignorant about Christianity.

I am also sure that you are prejudiced against homosexuality and it is not convincing for you to quote passages from the Bible that seem to say that homosexuality is an abomination and yet claim that the other abominations are mistranslations. That is just sooooo convenient, surely even you can see how ludicrous and dodgy it is and how much more logical and reasonable it is to see that you like so many men of your age are homophobic.

I could go on but it I think we need to agree to disagree. Okay?

BD: "it appears to me that you are 'issues' centred, rather than 'principle' centred. Your principles such as they are, seem to relfect trendy atheistic philosophical views which can change with the next 'hot shot' popularist Philosopher"

As I have stated in another forum I have direct experience with refugees and immigrants as a result of working as a housing officer for state government. I am not so naive nor 'trend driven' as U like to suggest. My principles are assaulted by your lack of humanity towards others plus the hypocrasy that you claim your view reflects christian values.

And there's nothing wrong with being an atheist - so that hardly constitutes debate, BD.

You support howard because of your fear of anything that isn't white hetero male oriented.