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The Forum > Article Comments > Book review: God 'under' Howard - a different perspective > Comments

Book review: God 'under' Howard - a different perspective : Comments

By Gavin Mooney, published 6/4/2005

Gavin Mooney argues Marion Maddox's book 'God under Howard' is well researched and draws frightening conclusions.

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It is heartening that Teresa has the monopoly on wisdom and can classify John Howard's behaviour in a singular sentence.The lie Teresa is in your tunnel vision of a world that is dynamic and changing,which shows no respect for your perfect concept of how reality should behave.
Judge not what politicians say,but look at the economic bounty they have produced,more money for social security than ever before,more prolonged prosperity than Labor has ever achieved in living memory,and still you bite the hand that feeds you;just like my ungreatful children at times.
Posted by Arjay, Thursday, 21 April 2005 10:57:50 PM
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I'm new to the forum, but I think Arjay makes a good point about experience living under/with the policies of the parties we are voting for. I'm interested Boaz, given your opinions on abortion, divorce and supporting Family First whether you are actually speaking as someone with experience in raising children or whether your opinions are based on a theoretical perspective? I'm not trying to discredit your opinion as I would agree with some of it (but not all!).
As someone with young children, while I believe that the Howard Government has let us down with Medicare, I have found some of his other policies have provided better support for families than what was previously available.
I think you'll also find that Christianity (in its many guises) has influenced all the major parties and Labor has shifted to the right as well. In fact in the last decade I think in many Western countries the majority have shifted to the right, I don't think Howard can lay claim to that conspiracy alone.
Posted by Ruthie B, Friday, 22 April 2005 12:08:00 AM
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Sorry, I know the discussion has moved way past this point, but I forgot to mention that in support of Mollydukes 'fertilised egg' versus Boaz 'murder of life': If we are looking to the Bible as Boaz is want to do, My understanding is that under Old Testament 'eye for an eye' law, if a pregnant woman was murdered it was punishable by death but if the woman survived and only her unborn child was "killed" then it was not punishable by death - suggesting God made the distinction between a living person and an unborn fetus and that if an unborn fetus died it was not considered murder in God's eyes.
Posted by Ruthie B, Friday, 22 April 2005 12:28:55 AM
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Arjay, "tick"

Teresa, we didn't start any war, we shared in the removal of a vicious and sadistic tryant and we are currently trying to quell the remnants of THAT legacy who seem to think they can STILL slaughter people at their whim, (52 shiites) Those people are not fighting for nationalist goals, they are fighting to regain lost privileges which were themselves based on oppression that should have shamed the world.

Ruthie,

your a breath of fresh air, I don't mind people disagreeing with me, I just prefer to not see 'slogan's being thrown at me as some tend to do.
You make some good points, and re Medicare, I concur totally, I feel the Coalition could and SHOULD do WAY more in this dept. Its for that kind of reason that my political interest is towards families first.
I do have children, 3, oldest 24, youngest 17.

We benefited from Labor's dental program, but the fluridation of the water seems to have done more to avoid costly visits to the doc, having only had ONE for the kids in all of their lives. Me, basket case when it comes to teeth.

Interesting point you made about the Old Testament and pregnant woman, I'll give that some thought and some research. By the way, I didn't mean to sound to strident and dogmatic in using the term 'murder' I was actually using it in a legal sense more than anything, just to give the correct legal term to the termination of an unborn baby 'if' one regards it as a human being.

Well observed about Labor also heading in the 'religious' direction.

One of my favorite passages from scripture is in II Chronicles 7.13

"If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray, and seek my face, THEN, will I hear from heaven, and heal their land"

If ever there was a time when we needed to hear and live those words it is now. We need social healing, emotional healing, political healing, u name it, we need it.

blessings
Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 22 April 2005 11:07:50 AM
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Ruth,

The shame of the world is the state and history of Africa with it's war and famine and starvation, not Iraq or the Middle East. And you don't create freedom by fighting, you create it by loving, sacrificially, deeply and compassionately. This is what Christ did, and the call for us to do so, gives people, the world, hope. And Arjay, I don't bite the hand that feeds me, I'm a teacher, a worker, and tax-payer. You could say Howard bights my hand because he doesn't spend the taxs he collects off us in the best possible way. Labor wouldn't either and that's why I go with One Nation WA. And David you are right, their policies were essentially about "population and sustainability", not race. We don't have any water in Australia because as a nation we firstly, fail to pray (even many christians fail to pray), and secondly, current and previous political leaders have had and have little vision in this area. I support a larger population for Australia with the water sustainability that goes with it. It can be done with a proper plan for water conservation, channelling water from rivers, and decentralisation of the population away from cities with migration towards rural and regional centres. Everyone knows the country is a great place to raise a family. More Australians should do it. Imagine all the people in the world we could bless with a larger population.
Posted by Teresa van Lieshout, Friday, 22 April 2005 6:20:39 PM
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Theresa, nice to see more of 'Him' :)

yes, I do agree we actually could sustain more, and in ways that you suggested, by developing some of the traditionally less hospitable areas, and more utilization of our vast interior.
Sadly, the capitalist system we are currently subject to does not allow many opportunities for creative small players as we see more and more small farms being swallowed up and corporatized so that 'scale' can make them more profitable.

I keep putting forward Christ as our source of values, because I'm constantly on about 'make-it-up-as-u-go'ism which invariably has to be the default approach of those outside of Christ. This is illustrated so clearly by the Bali drug bust. Some people are up in arms because our police made known the info to the Indo police who have capital punishment whereas we don't. So, 'who is right' ? "Is" anyone 'right' in this or is it just 'different laws'.. well of course, its the latter, but the 'MIUAUG' mob cannot accept that its just as valid as not having it. Only when we look to God for guidance on matters of law will we have enduring and valid values which don't allow the ruthless exploitation of the world in the name of 'share holder value'.

So, the Liberals could learn a lot from this, as can Labor, the Greens just are not on the scale as far as I'm concerned. It is no coincidence that Labor and the Democrats in the USA are playing more the "God card" because they have woken up to the fact that the Godless socialist utopia that the Lygon Street Lefties refer to does not exist outside Carlton.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Sunday, 24 April 2005 5:57:09 PM
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