Strayan

And isn't it interesting that you refer to Muslim Australians - rather than Australian Muslims - that says it all for me.

To Shashana and all similar,

Was it bigotry and immoral for America or the UK to destroy Nazism both ideologically and physically? Is it bigotry to call a working class Australian who thinks his wife's place is in the kitchen & in bed a male pig? Is it bigotry and vitriol to try to stop, whether physically or ideologically or both, a philosophy that can't consider anyone different(kafir)a friend and who's fundamental code (sharia) openly admits is in conflict with basic human rights?
It is this general attitude that swims throughout the muslim world, and it is this attitude that leads to the millions of poor, low-skilled asian workers in the RICH GULF COUNTRIES being treated like animals, it is the second largest(behind the hundreds of millions of slaves that the Chinese regime are using to build up their empire)group of "slaves" that exist today in the world. Is it wrong or bigotted to be vocally against this? Or is it really that you and your ilk think the state of your "queesiness" more important than the lives of non-white people? That rather than point out an obvious problem (even if this is half of all muslims for example, it should make no difference unless one is a coward)of racism and gender apartheid, lest one of the "good guys" might feel smeared. Well I will tell you this : what of the rest of us? And anyway, how "good" is anyone if they can't seperate themselves from their race for five minutes to objectively anylise a real problem? Does every white person feel "targeted" when a black person points out the obvious racism of the kkk or a neo-nazi? Why should we?
We cannot attack even Bin Laden without the most moderate muslim taking offence, which they clearly show by not directly condemning him, because "I don't know the man". If this is how they think, why do they believe anything, why are they religious, they don't know Muhommed first hand.

Hey Strayan,
I saw those reports of rape and needless looting and I was disusted. But guess what, a couple of predominantly poor white areas right near the main city and there was looting for food and water sure, but not for grand pianos or tvs etc. There were no rapes there. I hate to point it out but I have to, but all the rapes and gangs shooting at police and such were blacks. Some Australians caught in there say they felt the anger from some black thugs targeting them because they were white.
Now, before I go, can I ask how I can say this any different? How can I portray a disgusting criminal & racial event and not offend some other black people? They shouldn't be offended if I point out a group of "black kkk" they should instead help me to denounce it.
I challenge anyone to explain to me how, short of igoring it,
one can communicate this racist event in some other non-offending manner!

Shoshana,

It is not a 'minority' of Muslims that are the problem. It is the majority - those who are are either indifferent, intimidated or outright hostile to Western civilization. Because of this Muslims create problems wherever they go. They are in denial. I see you also cannot answer a simple question. I see that you want don't want to ask yourself the hard questions. Muslims are diverse, yes, but the hate, anger and intolerance is a trademark of Islam wherever it is, in some places more, and in some places less, but it's always there.

Yes, dialogue such as this can cause ill feelings and make Muslims resentful - but not telling the truth and not facing reality is much much worse.

The issue is Muslims, and not just in Australia. A quote from Germany...
(quote) A peek into a mosque in Cologne-Müllheim, Berlin, Neukölln or Hamburg-Altona during Friday prayers is enough to see that hate sits deep within these groups and that nothing can be achieved by arguing with them.

That is where the not exactly peaceable writings of the (Maulawis), the so-called Islamic scholars, are pushed into the community. That is where schoolbooks with radical contents are distributed for free. We all used to believe that these were the confused thougts of a handful of illiterates. How naive! We finally comprehend that they want to destroy us and our ideals. Even here, in Germany ... (unquote)
From: http://medienkritik.typepad.com/blog/2004/03/eine_muslimin_s.html

Ask yourself why this is. Ask yourself what is it that makes Islam universally synonymous with hate and anger. There are no moderate Muslims, only those who condemn terror (wink, wink) and then make excuses, saying that is not the real Islam.

Shoshana, you want common ground? You say there are problems with Islam, but your common ground is that "Muslims are not the issue." Stupid! Not logical! Here is my common ground: Torture is evil. People who torture are evil scum. Will you accept that as common ground? Can we agree on this?

Kactuz, AKA John, signing off.

PS: Kemal Ataturk was, in my opinion, a great man

Kactuz,

The fallacy in your argument is ‘muslim majority’. Most average muslims go on about the day to day life and I can say that from recent experience traveling across few countries. They adopt modernization and moderation in every aspect of their day to day lives. The loud minority is amplified with the media attention and thats not exclusive to Islam BTW.

Boaz,

Speaking of modernization or modern interpretation of the Quran, the 4 wives myth is and has always been a measure/permit used only for extreme conditions (stated as incomeless orphan or widow sponsorship) and the default in the Quran clearly is one wife. While I agree that this right was abused by Arabic culture, this is neither the norm nor a rule in Islam. But of course as someone who studied Islam you knew that but you have an amazing preference for half truth!

MS Burns,

Not seen the program you are talking about but as a parent I like to know who my daughter is socializing with and their families as well. My Catholic neighbours here are doing the very same thing. This has nothing to do with racism but common interest: if you are a tennis player you won’t be out playing with a bunch of footy fans!

David Palmer,

Religion in modern days is the logic for heart and minds of individuals to achieve inner peace, and good understanding and interaction with other humans and creatures around us.

Now, you and other people who criticize Islamist fanaticism are fanatics yourselves!
you refer on another posting to “Christian lands” in the middle east and Africa. Only individuals can have a religious belief of their choice and “Christian lands” concept should die in you first then you will be able to criticize Islamist extremism.

Xena,

Great to read your postings again, I had a long break in the Egypt and it was ‘nice warm’ 40 degrees as the locals called it.

Good morning fellow H :)

Now.. on the wives thing. Yes, I accept and agree that 'to a degree' your understanding is correct. But as you say I speak half truth, u also do this. There is the suggestion that 'have one for your religion' ... right ? :) yes.. bingo. So an extra wife can be 'merely' for the sake of religion? hmmmm...

Now, further, you paint the picture in a way which attempts to make it as acceptable as possible, but why am I doubtful about this ? Simple, the close association of sexual activity in the life of the prophet. "We used to say he had the sexual strength of 30 men" yep.. u know that one too, and it was in the context of 'he visited his wives one after the other in an hour or 2' which was why they made that comment.

Also, I've seen it in Islamic literature where they say "The rules for the masses don't apply to the Prophet" i.e. 'Do what I say, not what I do" I can give you a reference, but no need.

Ash, I fully understand that you have grown up with Islam, and that your sincere heart wishes to find no fault in it, because of your culture and upbringing. But an outsider looking at the full picture can see just one thing. A socially motivated man who had some kind of experience which convinced him sufficiently that he was somehow called of God, but who then used this increasingly as a tool for his own power and influence especially as he became more militarily powerful. I see so many 'revelations of convenience' which you seem to be blind to. The way in which he seems to fluctuate between the 'prophet' and the 'politician' and the 'schemer' are very obvious. Anyway... never mind, we can continue to debate.

You should know that such things are not recorded about Christ. There is a world/universe of difference. (and no, I don't accept our Scriptures are corrupted. that is an Islamic tool of self defense to say that)