Boaz, every so often you should take your own advice, and apply it rigorously to your own posts.

>>We cannot take every phrase uttered by every person and use it to justify all things.<<

But this is exactly and precisely and consistently what you have been up to in your references to Islam, its laws and customs. You have been unashamedly selective, unremittingly one-eyed and persistently censorious in your approach, and seem to take pleasure in doing so.

The article to which you are attaching your comments makes the point that "one size doesn't fit all". You clearly disagree, but instead of discussing the point, you simply charge ahead as if it were completely obvious that you are right.

Have you ever considered self-awareness training? It might help, you know.

"Medieval Europe burnt 400,000 women with red hair and green eyes"

Come on FH?!

If this were true, then Europe wouldn't have survived (nor would red heads with green eyes!) Can you sight where this 'fact' came from? Can you express it as a % of the total of the Medieval European population. Which city had the best kill rate?

If you do analyse this kind of statement, you will see how silly it really is... and thank your/our Christian God that those De La Salle brothers were able to give you an education, more than those rich sheiks offer their subjects...

Reality Check,

First there is no real doc on the number of women burnt in medieval
Europe (canadian Burning times said 9 millions and genocide.org said documented 150,000).

Second, does the number really matter? I guess we can tell Algerians to feel better than French killed "only" 1 million?

And whats with the "Christian God" ...how big is your ego? I did not hear anything similar from French monks in 14 years of education.

pppplease!.
:):)

MS Burns, your remarks are spot on. If a couple of Australians bombed the Eifel tower, I'd be ashamed to be an Australian and I would surely denounce them. I would want to know why and how a couple of aussies could have done such an act. If I was an Australian living in France, I would be furious that these Australian terrorists had undermined the reputatation of aussies as peace lovers and made the French suspicious of me. However, if I secretly approved of the actions because of say eg. french nuclear testing in the pacific, then I would probably wanna harp on about that issue and while not saying that the Aussie terrorists were right to bomb the Eifel tower, I may not be aggressively condemning them. I'd be trying to hint that they kinda deserved it.

I think most aussie muslims are trying to say that the West deserves what they get from Osama Bin laden/terrosrism, that they kinda asked for it. Their issues are the usual; Israel/Palestine/Iraq. They may not approve of his tactics, but they feel empathy for his cause.

To all posters

The topic on this thread is about Howard's meeting with a select number of Muslim leaders. I believe that Waleed's point was that the meeting was not inclusive enough to be of benefit to anyone. I have tried to put this simply. I hope this brief summary isn't too difficult to follow.

Now, the bulk of posts on this thread have been about how 'bad' Islam apparently is - this is completely OFF TOPIC. In fact not a single post on this thread by Boaz refers to the topic at all.

This constitutes a complete lack of courtesy to others on this forum who would like to discuss the thread.

There is a plethora of Islam bashing throughout OLO - now, kiddies, just this once could we please have some comment relating to the topic - regardless of your personal feelings about Islam or Christianity or flying broomsticks.

Please, anyone?

I am sure the Prime Minister thought long and hard about who he would invite to the Summit. No matter who he decided on there would undoubtedly be Muslims and Muslim groups who felt they had been left out.
Just perusing the list of 51 organisations who wrote to the PM when they were excluded makes one realise how big the problem is [see Statement at http://www.dawa.net.au/Statement%20to%20the%20delegates%20of%20the%20PMs%20summit%20220805.pdf ]
Of course leaving out those who are more 'radical' (though in the Statement they reject such terms] runs the risk of marginalising and separating the Islamic community further. Some leaders said that those not invited would not be inclined - or required - to listen when told how to act by those who attended.
Then there is the question of what really is the belief of Muslims and how do these groups differ in their application of those beliefs...
The Islamic Council of Victoria, for which Waleed Aly is a spokesman, says on its website,
"The main objectives of the ICV according to the constitution are:
(1) To vigilantly maintain and apply the true Islamic doctrines as, contained in the Holy Quran and the Sunnah as practiced by the Holy Prophet Mohamed (May Allah's Blessings and Mercy be Upon Him) at all times in the carrying out of the objects of this Constitution."
Other groups would also claim that as their focus. The question is how this really plays out in practice.